Craig Mackail-Smith

Triggaaar · Mar 16, 2017

Buzzer said:
Utter tosh:

Thanks for the warning.

As others have said, you've ignored the seasons where Murray has scored loads of goals

I haven't ignored that, it wasn't relevant to the point. Yes, Murray went on to have a great season. CMS might have had one too if he hadn't got injured and played in a 442. Murray's record before his great season was worse than Craig's, so there's certainly no proof that CMS couldn't have done it.

and as for 11 goals in a struggling side, that Posh side was completely geared towards CMS's style of play, they played all-out attack and he still didn't score. The fact that that Posh were relegated doesn't automatically equate to strikers not scoring. The same season Hooper got 19 for Scunthorpe and they finished 4th from bottom. This season Tammy Abraham has scored 19 goals and Brizzle City are 3rd from bottom.

Without watching the way Posh played that season, we can only guess. We have no idea whether they were able to create chances or not that season.

Weststander · Mar 16, 2017

Triggaaar said:
What that shows is that a player could go from 6 goals (or whatever it was) in a season to 30. If Murray had been badly injured after his first year with Palace then people would look back and say it's been proven that he wasn't good enough for the Championship. Buzzer was trying to show that CMS wasn't good enough, but I just highlighted that he did better than Murray a lot of the time, and we don't know how a fit CMS would have done in a team like ours.

Do they? I've never seen anyone say that.

What we do know is that CMS before his injury, had the likes at different times of Vicente, Buckley, Orlando, Lopez, Bridge, LuaLua, Calderon, Barnes and Noone as team mates. All good to outstanding players, and one way or another creators in games.

CMS only scored 21 league goals over 63 starts, plus sub appearances, before the injury, over those first two seasons.

In contrast Murray scored 30 in a single promotion season for CP, and 18 for us already, as well as being an outstanding target man and providing plenty of assists. The stats don't lie - a class above CMS at Championship level.

Buzzer · Mar 16, 2017

Triggaaar said:
I haven't ignored that, it wasn't relevant to the point..

Yes you did ignore it, it was very relevant. It shows that Murray was able to score goals in the Championship, something that CMS struggled with despite almost 4 full seasons of trying.

Triggaaar said:
Without watching the way Posh played that season, we can only guess. We have no idea whether they were able to create chances or not that season.

Well....that's where you're wrong. We DO know the number of shots P'boro had that season and comparative to other teams in the same league.

http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=league_shots

And I did a little bit of analysis. If you work out shots per goal then that will give you a pretty good idea of just how clinical or profligate the strikers are. I also compared the P'boro strike rate compared with League 1 in order to check whether they are just a team that requires lots of chances to get goals. It showed that their strike-rates were much better in League 1 than in the Championship. The evidence is pretty clear. CMS was not a very good Championship player for P'boro.

Slight typo in the graphic. Should be for seasons 08/09, 09/10 and 10/11.

Simster · Mar 16, 2017

Team Buzzer.

CMS was average in his first season, got worse, got injured, eventually declining to rank mediocrity. First touch of a blind rapist, poor finisher, the occasional worldie. Wish we'd never signed him but like Buzzer i found myself thinking that two thirds into his second season here.

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Triggaaar · Mar 17, 2017

Weststander said:
What we do know is that CMS before his injury, had the likes at different times of Vicente, Buckley, Orlando, Lopez, Bridge, LuaLua, Calderon, Barnes and Noone as team mates. All good to outstanding players, and one way or another creators in games.

But we played him as a target man.

Triggaaar · Mar 17, 2017

Buzzer said:
Yes you did ignore it, it was very relevant. It shows that Murray was able to score goals in the Championship, something that CMS struggled with despite almost 4 full seasons of trying.

It showed that Murray could score when in the right team playing the right way - the same player that only scored 6 the year before. CMS

Well....that's where you're wrong. We DO know the number of shots P'boro had that season and comparative to other teams in the same league.

I didn't say we don't know the number of shots they had. If a team is struggling to break the opponents down, they might shoot from distance more. That won't tell you much about CMS.

You've said what you think, I disagree with you.

KingKev · Mar 17, 2017

Buzzer said:
Yes you did ignore it, it was very relevant. It shows that Murray was able to score goals in the Championship, something that CMS struggled with despite almost 4 full seasons of trying.

Well....that's where you're wrong. We DO know the number of shots P'boro had that season and comparative to other teams in the same league.

http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=league_shots

And I did a little bit of analysis. If you work out shots per goal then that will give you a pretty good idea of just how clinical or profligate the strikers are. I also compared the P'boro strike rate compared with League 1 in order to check whether they are just a team that requires lots of chances to get goals. It showed that their strike-rates were much better in League 1 than in the Championship. The evidence is pretty clear. CMS was not a very good Championship player for P'boro.

11.

Er, no. That doesn't prove anything about CMS per se.
It's indicative of Posh finding it harder to make the same quality of chances in a higher division - quelle surprise!. That may well have resulted in a far higher proportion of their attempts being "hit & hope" efforts from mid-fielders 20-plus yards from goal, for example.

We will never know how CMS may have fared if playing in front of a championship quality team that was set up to exploit his strengths (e.g. 4-4-2 or a full-on counter attacking set-up).
FWIW I think at his best he was probably good enough for mid-table Championship. But those stats don't prove anything on their own.

amexer · Mar 17, 2017

Cant believe 9 pages about CMS. One of our worst buys. Out of his depth in championship. Got fed up with paying to watch him run around aimlesly for 90mins. Something we could all have done with training every day. Was popular because he ran around and was last of pitch.

Psychobilly freakout · Mar 17, 2017

I appreciated Craig's tireless and consistent effort during his time at the Albion, but in all fairness that is all it was without the end product. As others have mentioned he seemed an affable person, one who the fans could warm too. That said I never understood considering they were both at the Albion the same time the dogs abuse poor old Ashley Barnes got with a similar effort and better end product, he was by far the better all round player at a fraction of the price.

CMS is a league one player at best and suited Peterbroughs attack attack philosophy at the time, there is an old saying "throw enough shit and eventually it will stick" kinda applies playing against league one defences and in the end that's why we and others wanted him without actually taking into account the quality of opposition he was playing against week in week out.

Anyway what do I know.... I rated Barnes...

Rugrat · Mar 17, 2017

Psychobilly freakout said:
CMS is a league one player at best and suited Peterbroughs attack attack philosophy at the time, there is an old saying "throw enough shit and eventually it will stick" kinda applies playing against league one defences and in the end that's why we and others wanted him without actually taking into account the quality of opposition he was playing against week in week out.

Anyway what do I know.... I rated Barnes...

That team with McCann, Tomlin, Boyd and Maclean was ridiculously attack minded. They scored 106 goals in their promotion year, more than 20 more than us despite finishing 16 points behind. He could run on to a through ball and finish it but that kind of space doesn't generally exist in the C'ship, and without too much else to his game he was buggered

Wardy's twin · Mar 17, 2017

should have bought Boyd.... he was cheaper at the time and a better all round player and scored a lot of goals.

Weststander · Mar 17, 2017

Rugrat said:
That team with McCann, Tomlin, Boyd and Maclean was ridiculously attack minded. They scored 106 goals in their promotion year, more than 20 more than us despite finishing 16 points behind. He could run on to a through ball and finish it but that kind of space doesn't generally exist in the C'ship, and without too much else to his game he was buggered

Every opponents central defence once we went up to the Championship, seemed to have two Duffy/Dunk units, tall, powerful, with pace and a footballing brain. Out thought and out powered little CMS.

To prosper at higher levels with that time of personal game and size, the player needs to be exceptional - Chopra, Vidra (then), Bellamy, Vardy - to name some examples. CMS wasn't, but in League One he was outstanding.

AmexRuislip · Aug 17, 2017

Wycombe Wanderers sign striker Mackail-Smith on a one-year deal

http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co...striker-mackail-smith-on-a-one-year-deal.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40964166

Tom Hark Preston Park · Aug 17, 2017

Rugrat said:
That team with McCann, Tomlin, Boyd and Maclean was ridiculously attack minded. They scored 106 goals in their promotion year

Didn't they also concede about 100 goals that season? That's schoolboy kick'n'rush stuff. Warning bells should have sounded about CMS at that point.

Mind you, George Boyd WAS The Fifth Beatle and would have been an elegant acquisition by the club at the time. CMS? Not so much.

Simster · Aug 17, 2017

Back with Adam El Abd then. Good luck to the bloke.

BensGrandad · Aug 17, 2017

In CMS and Nathan Tyson they have signed 2 strikers who in the past have been prolific goalscorers and scored a lot of goals but it just remains to see if they can still do it.

Monkey Man · Aug 17, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co...striker-mackail-smith-on-a-one-year-deal.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40964166

Joining Adam El-Abd. Really liked both players, in their own way, and both would have had realistic hopes of being in a Brighton Premier League squad had things worked out differently a few seasons ago.

Shame for them that in the season we finally made it, they're playing at a far lower level. Wish them both well.

Napper · Aug 17, 2017

don't Wycombe still have "the beast" as well ?

to be fair CMS first 2 season were ok with 9 and 11 goals , last 2 were shit though.

1 in 5 average , not to different from Baldock.

Decent bloke , wish him well.

AmexRuislip · Aug 17, 2017

BensGrandad said:
In CMS and Nathan Tyson they have signed 2 strikers who in the past have been prolific goalscorers and scored a lot of goals but it just remains to see if they can still do it.

Adams Park, has one of those atmospheres, that sometimes takes one back to the Goldstone era.

sussex_guy2k2 · Aug 17, 2017

Rugrat said:
That team with McCann, Tomlin, Boyd and Maclean was ridiculously attack minded. They scored 106 goals in their promotion year, more than 20 more than us despite finishing 16 points behind. He could run on to a through ball and finish it but that kind of space doesn't generally exist in the C'ship, and without too much else to his game he was buggered

The key word in this whole post is *could*.

Yes he could, but he rarely did.

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