alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Thats awful.
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We have to remember and accept that the ref is probably best available and doing his best and all are bound to make mistakes !!! I accept it can be hard on youngsters when obvious mistakes are made but parents should know better than to abuse ref...After all it is only a game !!!
Spiros
Well-known member
You are bang on and it's not really a new problem. Back in the 90's I somehow found myself on the committee running the Brighton, Hove and District FL and also on the disciplinary committee. We used to regularly get reports where refs had been assaulted, spat at, etc. Every time we gave the offender a long ban. Every time they appealed to the Sussex County FA who would overturn the ban pretty much every time so the thug concerned would be available the following Saturday. Unless anything has changed the problem lies with the FAs not being tough enough
spring hall convert
Well-known member
This. Some parents abandon all perspective over effectively meaningless games at u-14 and way, way below. I remember it from when I was a kid and I still see it when I've gone to see my nephew and brother play in recent years.
I've a fair bit of perspective on this - I play to a reasonable level, I referee Sunday U16, am a watching parent at countless junior games, plus both of my teenage sons are qualified referees.
Whilst the young refs do undoubtably have to deal with various utter dickheads at park level, my experience is that the behavior of players is worse, the higher the level. My older son was appointed to the assistant referees panel of the Wessex League (tier 9) at the age of 16. Some of the behavior of those (paid) players is pathetic.
Whilst the young refs do undoubtably have to deal with various utter dickheads at park level, my experience is that the behavior of players is worse, the higher the level. My older son was appointed to the assistant referees panel of the Wessex League (tier 9) at the age of 16. Some of the behavior of those (paid) players is pathetic.
McTavish
Well-known member
- Nov 5, 2014
- 1,563
And here we have one of the problems - a referee failing to penalise "back pass" is shocking? Really?I have seen some shocking referees at youth games.
I was watching one of my lads in an under 14s game, an opposition defender hit the ball back to his keeper, " back pass " shouted my sons teams manager, and a few players and parents.
The ref said " no back pass, the defender hit it too hard "
It's even possible that the referee was correct, just because the defender has kicked it and the keeper picked it up doesn't necessarily mean that there is anything wrong. But even if the referee was 100% incorrect it's hardly something that I would class as shocking. A small, largely inconsequential mistake, yes, but not "shocking".
Shocking is parents and players yelling at a referee because they feel he or she has done something wrong (often mistakenly).
Everyone likes to think they know the laws but they really don't. To demonstrate let's take a basic one - without looking it up which of these is correct from the law about throw-ins:
When taking a throw-in the thrower must have
a. both feet completely behind the touchline
b. both feet completely on or behind the touchline
c. both feet partly on or behind the touchline
Do you know? Are you sure?
I used to referee when at school/college as it was a bit of handy cash on the side. It enabled me to play county U18's at 10am, and then be free to referee a 12:30 and 2 o'clock game straight after on the same pitch and earn £50ish cash in hand.
On the whole I was pretty lucky, i'd say once in 4 years I was actually subject to a team/manager(s) going completely over the top. That resulted in me (at 15), having to ask a middle aged man to leave the pitch for consistent swearing, abuse, and at one point even encouraging his players to have a go at me. It all started because he didn't actually know the offside rule, and resulted in a written letter of apology from him admitting that he had got the rules wrong and wasn't aware of the new rule (this was when it all changed a few years back).
Thing is, for a 14/15/16 year old lad now, most of them would rather spend a few hours in a shop around college/weekends than stand in all weathers taking abuse from middle aged men (and women), of whom many don't know the rules, for not a huge amount of money. Their is no incentive to keep it going as a career, all referee's are seen as negative individuals within the game. I fully understand that Mike Dean is making some horrific mistakes, but the problem is the abuse and attention he gets puts any potential youngster off taking it up. It also seemed to take a lot of personal time, and evenings etc. spent attending meetings/training if you want to get anywhere above county level, and most people simply have better things to do with their free time. The majority of people with an interest in football either want to spend their Saturdays watching it, playing it, or watching it at the pub, not refereeing it.
The problem will only get worse. There's a reason why referee's make mistakes and don't get replaced, because there aren't enough of them to do anything else about it.
On the whole I was pretty lucky, i'd say once in 4 years I was actually subject to a team/manager(s) going completely over the top. That resulted in me (at 15), having to ask a middle aged man to leave the pitch for consistent swearing, abuse, and at one point even encouraging his players to have a go at me. It all started because he didn't actually know the offside rule, and resulted in a written letter of apology from him admitting that he had got the rules wrong and wasn't aware of the new rule (this was when it all changed a few years back).
Thing is, for a 14/15/16 year old lad now, most of them would rather spend a few hours in a shop around college/weekends than stand in all weathers taking abuse from middle aged men (and women), of whom many don't know the rules, for not a huge amount of money. Their is no incentive to keep it going as a career, all referee's are seen as negative individuals within the game. I fully understand that Mike Dean is making some horrific mistakes, but the problem is the abuse and attention he gets puts any potential youngster off taking it up. It also seemed to take a lot of personal time, and evenings etc. spent attending meetings/training if you want to get anywhere above county level, and most people simply have better things to do with their free time. The majority of people with an interest in football either want to spend their Saturdays watching it, playing it, or watching it at the pub, not refereeing it.
The problem will only get worse. There's a reason why referee's make mistakes and don't get replaced, because there aren't enough of them to do anything else about it.
Interesting, from my experience (I refereed Chelsea U15's, Sussex rep squad, and Brighton boys) etc., they were far more disciplined than the likes of your average U15 team on a Sunday playing to a much lower standard. The managers of any of the former would simply substitute any player that gave me any form of dissent, and it worked a treat.
Meade's Ball
Well-known member
I remember, some time back, whilst playing 5-a-side in north London, that one evening we had a family of referees in charge of various games. I recall the dad, of about 40, with his three teen sons, all being painfully and annoyingly similar. I say teen, but one of them seemed around 10 or 11 years old, and the match he reffed was just a tad strange, in the fact that I, aged 28 at the time, was being told off by a child. I think he even put me in the sin bin. The shame of being marched off the field of play by a pre-pubescent boy still lives with me.
It's the sort of skill or duty I don't think I would pass down to my children, even they might have seemed good at it.
It's the sort of skill or duty I don't think I would pass down to my children, even they might have seemed good at it.
Within the pro / representative game, that's true, for sure. My lads have reffed U9 up to U16 for Southampton's academy and its the absolutely best environment for a young official to start. The players are as good as gold (have to be) and the parents are not permitted to shout anything (at the players or the officials).
The Wessex league players though, who think they're big time because their getting paid £50 quid, seemed mostly absolute knobs.
"Spat at and punched"
Sounds like what happens to me when I get home from a football away match on the weekend and I refuse to cuddle up with my mate.
He gets so jealous of my wife.
Sounds like what happens to me when I get home from a football away match on the weekend and I refuse to cuddle up with my mate.
He gets so jealous of my wife.
The youngsters see PL players behaving in a certain way and, basically, getting away with it, so the kids do it.
It's always been that way.....even back in the days where I was the "******* in the black".
Now we have young & aspiring referees watching The Complete and Utter Shyster (and others like him) getting away with it on the telly.. so that's who they want to be.
(And £60 match fee for a kids game now? Ridiculous match fee for a ref.....I'm coming out of retirement!)
It's always been that way.....even back in the days where I was the "******* in the black".
Now we have young & aspiring referees watching The Complete and Utter Shyster (and others like him) getting away with it on the telly.. so that's who they want to be.
(And £60 match fee for a kids game now? Ridiculous match fee for a ref.....I'm coming out of retirement!)
It was quite funny TBF as in another match ( same team ) a defender shielded the ball without touching it so his keeper could collect the ball in the penalty box.
Guess what happened? Free kick for a back pass, ref said the defender touched the ball, he was the only person that saw this.
McTavish
Well-known member
- Nov 5, 2014
- 1,563
£22.00 on the Mid-Sussex Youth & Minor.
Everyone watching had a good laugh about the refs decision, it was funny TBH.
Eric, it was the most obvious back pass I have seen, if the keeper had missed it I would have seen a brilliant own goal.
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
The shortage of decent refs has allowed any tom dick or harry to officiate at junior matches. Having said that their is often a bias shown by referees, qualified or not, to their own teams. It can border on the intimidating. I recall a referee at Southdown threatening to book my 10 year old for encroaching at a corner! (rather than just explain the rules to him). Such events lead to friction between clubs and their officials/supporters. Problem is that there is no recourse whatever against a referee - the scfa always defend the sometime indefensible.
That said, there is no reason to swear, spit or assault a referee, whether they are paid or not.
That said, there is no reason to swear, spit or assault a referee, whether they are paid or not.
Apologies for mentioning I've seen some shocking referees and then posting a story that I thought was funny
I didn't lose any sleep over it , honest.
If this type of back pass happened at the Amex, I'm sure more than one person would shout " shocking decision ref"
Here is another story about a ref at a kids game another one of my lads played in recently.
I promise I won't mention ' shocking ' so I don't offend someone.
My lads team were defending and the other team had a shot that crossed the line for what should have been a goal. A defender then cleared the ball, obviously we don't have goal line technology, the linesman flagged for a goal the opposition team celebrated the goal, but the ref said " no goal and play on"
The linesman tried to tell the ref it was a clear goal, the Lino in fact was a father of one of our team, he was being 100% honest and not being biased at all.
Myself and the other parents thought it was a goal to the opposition and I thought it was unfair on them.
My son and some of his teammates said the ball definitely crossed the line for a goal.
B. Is a trick question.
Unless the player has kids size 1 boots, how on earth can both feet be ' completely on the touch line' ?
I suppose the player could be standing sideways.
C...