The cost of social care.

Wrong-Direction · Jan 19, 2017

There's more than enough money to support the NHS and fund social care, we're just told we're at breaking point and need to pay more by the powers that be, and we believe everything we're told because we're the general public and the general public are generally f***ing idiots.

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beorhthelm · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
I've always thought it strange that councils raise taxes but have to go cap in hand to central Govt for the rest of what they need to fund their services, the Govt can then dictate how much they are allowed to raise Council Tax by. Surely let local authorities be responsible for their own tax and spending and abolish the block grant. Of course Council Tax would rise significantly but income tax could be cut as there would be no more central Govt funding. Then people would have a real choice over who to elect on what budget they were proposing and councils would be 100% responsible for raising and spending their own revenue and providing the services.

i think current policy is along these lines, reducing government grant with councils free to raise and keep business rates (so as not to impact the voter directly)

crookie · Jan 19, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
There's more than enough money to support the NHS and fund social care, we're just told we're at breaking point and need to pay more by the powers that be, and we believe everything we're told because we're the general public and the general public are generally f***ing idiots.

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Are we not running an £80billion approx budget deficit then ?

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Wrong-Direction · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
Are we not running an £80billion approx budget deficit then ?

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As I said money isn't spent wisely

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Norman Baker suck my lozenge · Jan 19, 2017

If we can afford to fund India's space programme we can afford to fund social care properly.

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crookie · Jan 19, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
As I said money isn't spent wisely

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Agreed, that's for sure, what would you cut spending on to pay for more going into Social Care ?

Wrong-Direction · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
Agreed, that's for sure, what would you cut spending on to pay for more going into Social Care ?

Send all the leaders and mps to Slough instead of Switzerland for a start!

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portlock seagull · Jan 19, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
There's more than enough money to support the NHS and fund social care, we're just told we're at breaking point and need to pay more by the powers that be, and we believe everything we're told because we're the general public and the general public are generally f***ing idiots.

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This.

portlock seagull · Jan 19, 2017

Wrong-Direction said:
Send all the leaders and mps to Slough instead of Switzerland for a start!

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My friends out there at the moment and on arrival they had to wait outside hotel in minus 11 for half an hour. He he he. Even VIPs were made to wait because security etc.

studio150 · Jan 19, 2017

Leekbrookgull said:
It is reported that Surrey CC want to increase council tax by as much as 15% to pay for social care ? This issue has been raised by many councils up and down the UK as we all know,however there is one under lying theme that always comes up and that is simple people do not trust councils to spend 100% of whatever they may raise on social care and that it will just go into the councils general budget. Maybe i am wrong ?

I think the smart money is going on the fact that this is little more than a PR exercise by the Council in that they know thst the 15% increase will be rejected and therefore they can cut services and say that this was forced upon us because the increase we needed was rejected.

crookie said:
I've always thought it strange that councils raise taxes but have to go cap in hand to central Govt for the rest of what they need to fund their services, the Govt can then dictate how much they are allowed to raise Council Tax by. Surely let local authorities be responsible for their own tax and spending and abolish the block grant. Of course Council Tax would rise significantly but income tax could be cut as there would be no more central Govt funding. Then people would have a real choice over who to elect on what budget they were proposing and councils would be 100% responsible for raising and spending their own revenue and providing the services.

So by raising Council Tax significantly how do those better off pay more. There are many stories already where Pensioners struggle paying council tax if they live in a band D or above house given that they have limited income as well as little in the way of savings.
The only possible way would be possibly via a lical incone tax rate or a local purchase tax. But both if these increase administration costs and additional complexities for employers and retailers.

But wont all our problems be solved once we have finallt left the EU. We can all recall the bus sligan of £350m to the NHS. Instead this £350m can go into social care.

Bob'n'weave · Jan 19, 2017

Local Gov's are like a f***ing ponzi scheme. They have achieved the ultimate dream of physicists, perpetual motion in the form of perpetual BS. The waste of money is criminal and those in society who are most vulnerable pay the cost, with their lives. If you ran your business, or family budget like they did, you would either be in bankruptcy court or in a bed-sit with your kids in care. C***s.

DavidinSouthampton · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
I've always thought it strange that councils raise taxes but have to go cap in hand to central Govt for the rest of what they need to fund their services, the Govt can then dictate how much they are allowed to raise Council Tax by. Surely let local authorities be responsible for their own tax and spending and abolish the block grant. Of course Council Tax would rise significantly but income tax could be cut as there would be no more central Govt funding. Then people would have a real choice over who to elect on what budget they were proposing and councils would be 100% responsible for raising and spending their own revenue and providing the services.

One drawback with that might be the unfairness of wealthy parts of the country, like Surrey, being able to afford much better services than poorer parts, when it is quite possible that it wiould be the poorer parts which would need better services.

AWAYDAY · Jan 19, 2017

Bob'n'weave said:
Local Gov's are like a f***ing ponzi scheme. They have achieved the ultimate dream of physicists, perpetual motion in the form of perpetual BS. The waste of money is criminal and those in society who are most vulnerable pay the cost, with their lives. If you ran your business, or family budget like they did, you would either be in bankruptcy court or in a bed-sit with your kids in care. C***s.

No facts or basis in reality...income is going down, limited options to raise money, how could any 'business' survive that?

Bob'n'weave · Jan 19, 2017

AWAYDAY said:
No facts or basis in reality...income is going down, limited options to raise money, how could any 'business' survive that?

If you believe that, you'll believe anything. I worked for the council in Btn within their 'Strategy and Governance Department' and know first hand how inept, sectarian and self serving they are. There are no 'facts' when it comes to spewing money on 'directives' that just don't work. Sorry but I saw at least 1 million get thrown at forced redundancies on 'political' grounds so get off your horse.

mr sheen · Jan 20, 2017

Garage_Doors said:
What constitutes social care?

Support to help people live their lives, ideally in their own home. People who are frail, elderly, disabled and need extra support on a day to day basis with activities such as getting up, eating, dressing, washing etc. - that forms the bulk of adult social care activities, although there is more. Support that isn't linked to health needs.

AWAYDAY · Jan 20, 2017

Bob'n'weave said:
If you believe that, you'll believe anything. I worked for the council in Btn within their 'Strategy and Governance Department' and know first hand how inept, sectarian and self serving they are. There are no 'facts' when it comes to spewing money on 'directives' that just don't work. Sorry but I saw at least 1 million get thrown at forced redundancies on 'political' grounds so get off your horse.

Facts are that BHCC needs to save £24 million this year which is not about the 'wasteful' council with extra money sloshing around but about under funding essential services for the most vulnerable. I'm sure there has been waste over years,like there can be in any large organisation. Clearly This is not good. However to characterise the current crisis across the country as due to waste is either naive or deliberately misleading.

Public services are run for all our benifit. As with the NHS and schools, local authorities can no longer trim the edges. Services are on their knees and beginning to stop functioning. When people aren't getting medical treatment, crime rate soars, child poverty increases further, schools close or begin to stop supporting the poorest it's the daily mail readers who'll be shouting at those public services for failing. The same daily mail which is run by people who pay no tax in the U.K.!

We are a rich western country who can afford this if we want to. Corporation tax cuts and uncollected tax owed to the treasury are major factors in our budget hole.

For Tory voters and others out there just consider what society you really want to live in. Is it one of low wages for most, where you pay for each service individually and have health insurance at high premiums a two tier public and state school system even further apart and no support for the most vulnerable in some private workhouse scenario.

Yeah I'm on my high horse cos this stuff matters to me. Rant over, pop your blinkers on and get on with trump style misinformation if you like. If not get involved. Once these things are gone they're hard to get back.

Bob'n'weave · Jan 20, 2017

AWAYDAY said:
Facts are that BHCC needs to save £24 million this year which is not about the 'wasteful' council with extra money sloshing around but about under funding essential services for the most vulnerable. I'm sure there has been waste over years,like there can be in any large organisation. Clearly This is not good. However to characterise the current crisis across the country as due to waste is either naive or deliberately misleading.

Public services are run for all our benifit. As with the NHS and schools, local authorities can no longer trim the edges. Services are on their knees and beginning to stop functioning. When people aren't getting medical treatment, crime rate soars, child poverty increases further, schools close or begin to stop supporting the poorest it's the daily mail readers who'll be shouting at those public services for failing. The same daily mail which is run by people who pay no tax in the U.K.!

We are a rich western country who can afford this if we want to. Corporation tax cuts and uncollected tax owed to the treasury are major factors in our budget hole.

For Tory voters and others out there just consider what society you really want to live in. Is it one of low wages for most, where you pay for each service individually and have health insurance at high premiums a two tier public and state school system even further apart and no support for the most vulnerable in some private workhouse scenario.

Yeah I'm on my high horse cos this stuff matters to me. Rant over, pop your blinkers on and get on with trump style misinformation if you like. If not get involved. Once these things are gone they're hard to get back.

Soooooooo, why not spend 42.4 million on a giant phallus instead. You've been sold a pup.

Hotchilidog · Jan 20, 2017

Bob'n'weave said:
Soooooooo, why not spend 42.4 million on a giant phallus instead. You've been sold a pup.

Except the council have not spent £42m on the i360.

Bob'n'weave · Jan 20, 2017

Hotchilidog said:
Except the council have not spent £42m on the i360.

Oh dear. You really are missing the point. The PPP that was set up to raise money for the i360 was a massive undertaking which raised the money for the project aside from the council coffers, granted. If the PPP can raise this much for a 400ft cock, why cant the genius minds behind it raise money for essential services, or are the directors of those services not allowed/capable or motivated to do so? Maybe this is out of the control of the hard working front line services? I think we are voicing the same frustrations but from different perspectives.

AWAYDAY · Jan 20, 2017

Bob'n'weave said:
Oh dear. You really are missing the point. The PPP that was set up to raise money for the i360 was a massive undertaking which raised the money for the project aside from the council coffers, granted. If the PPP can raise this much for a 400ft cock, why cant the genius minds behind it raise money for essential services, or are the directors of those services not allowed/capable or motivated to do so? Maybe this is out of the control of the hard working front line services? I think we are voicing the same frustrations but from different perspectives.

I sincerely hope we are voicing the same frustrations from a different perspective.

I don't like the i360 however the plan is that should make a return on council investment to secure services long term. They are needing to look at how to make money in the future as central governments stated policy is to have zero central government funding for LAs by 2020. Council Tax, parking, business rates etc can not cover the short fall alone.

I return to my point that central government are to blame and not the local authority.

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