What's an appropriate sentence for a crime such as this?

El Presidente · Jan 19, 2017

A mother and her ex-partner have been jailed for 13 years each after being convicted of feeding drugs to her four-year-old daughter.

Poppy Widdison collapsed at her home in Grimsby and died in hospital from a cardiac arrest in June 2013.

Her mother Michala Pyke, 38, and her former partner John Rytting, 40, were found guilty of child cruelty, last month.

The pair were also jailed for supplying drugs.

Passing sentence, Judge Jeremy Richardson QC said the defendants "existed in a swamp of drug addiction and drug pedalling" and Poppy was "plunged into mire of drugs".

"The life of Poppy can only be characterised as tragic from the moment she was conceived," he added.

I'm not from the flog 'em, beat 'em, hang 'em school of thought as you know.

However this behaviour seems off the scale in terms of its depravity and cruelty.

Is this a reflection of a too liberal judicial system, an appropriate sentence for two people whose addictions have impacted upon their ability to make decisions, or just a barometer of twenty-first century England?

The Brighton Bear · Jan 19, 2017

I think that they should flog 'em, beat 'em and hang 'em.

Surrey_Albion · Jan 19, 2017

The worse thing about this is these two people can carry on having kids as part of their "human rights"

clippedgull · Jan 19, 2017

Whole life tariff

studio150 · Jan 19, 2017

I think the starting point woukd be whether child cruelty was the correct charge or whether manslaughter woukd have been more appropriate. It probabky came down to ensuring a conviction was secured.
Obviously some will seek a harsher sentence given that a young child has unfortunately died.
I think that 13 years is acceptable but I assume they would be eligible for being released on licence sometime before that which can be seen as being too lenient.
On balance a minimum term served of 10 years would be my option

Stat Brother · Jan 19, 2017

El Presidente said:
Is this a reflection of a too liberal judicial system, an appropriate sentence for two people whose addictions have impacted upon their ability to make decisions, or just a barometer of twenty-first century England?

Any right minded person should want to flog 'em, beat 'em, hang 'em, but that's not going to help the next Poppy.
Who in turn wasn't helped by the long list of innocent children who have already died at the hands of their drug fueled parents.

crookie · Jan 19, 2017

clippedgull said:
Whole life tariff

This, although the authorities need to have a long hard look at themselves too. How we seem content to leave young children with parents who are totally unequipped and or unwilling to bring them up in a normal way seems a gross dereliction of responsibility as a society

Buzzer · Jan 19, 2017

It's not a barometer of any age sadly. Child cruelty has always been with us and always will.

That said, what these parents did is off the scale and don't deserve to see daylight ever again.

clippedgull · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
This, although the authorities need to have a long hard look at themselves too. How we seem content to leave young children with parents who are totally unequipped and or unwilling to bring them up in a normal way seems a gross dereliction of responsibility as a society

Big this. Another innocent child has lost their life due to an incompetent local authority.

Taybha · Jan 19, 2017

Sad thing is these two scumbags will probably get some sort of police protection / nice single cell type life in nick for however long the sentence lasts , save the taxpayer the bother , give them a overdose of their own medicine

anygivensunday · Jan 19, 2017

I used to work at a school where one of the sixth form girls had been in care most of her life after her mother started injecting her with heroin aged seven. Absolutely all credit to her that she had managed to sort her life out herself and get an education after an upbringing like that. Some incredible stories out there.

sjamesb3466 · Jan 19, 2017

Chemical sterilisation should be the first step so that neither have the opportunity to bring another child into the world.

Unfortunately nothing is suitable as a punishment as it won't bring the poor child back and I fear that with scumbags like this, 13 years in prison and then the remainder of their life living free but most likely at the taxpayers expense is seen as the norm.

Stat Brother · Jan 19, 2017

clippedgull said:
Big this. Another innocent child has lost their life due to an incompetent local authority.

Hmmm, I doubt it's that's simplistic.

I'll hazard a guess that the child protection unit for the Grimsby local authority is under financed, understaffed and undervalued, just like every other child protection unit.

symyjym · Jan 19, 2017

Their mug shots look interesting. He looks pleased with himself and she looks haunted with guilt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-38677886

dazzer6666 · Jan 19, 2017

Jesus how horrific. Poor kid.

Difficult not to join the flog'em brigade for things like this. It's wrong of me, but I kind of hope some 'prison justice' goes their way at some point.

Oh, and 'drug pedalling' ? Was the article copied from HB&B ?

Publius Ovidius · Jan 19, 2017

There's a tug boat
Down by the river, dontcha know
With a cement bag, dropping on down
Now we know that, cements for the weight dear
5 'll get you 10 , old Macky's back in town.

Or is drowning the scum too good for them?

Neville's Breakfast · Jan 19, 2017

crookie said:
This, although the authorities need to have a long hard look at themselves too. How we seem content to leave young children with parents who are totally unequipped and or unwilling to bring them up in a normal way seems a gross dereliction of responsibility as a society

Yes, it is a dereliction of our responsibility. However, perhaps our society is in this position because of the vilification of professionals when they make mistakes. Social workers and their management are vilified by the media for making incorrect professional judgements, whether that be leaving children with abusive parents or removing them when they make a misjudgement the other way. Who amongst the rest of us could confidently make decisions in our jobs in that kind of environment ? A better way forward would be the removal of journalists and politicians from the process.

half time scores · Jan 19, 2017

The Brighton Bear said:
I think that they should flog 'em, beat 'em and hang 'em.

You omitted eviscerate 'em.

crookie · Jan 19, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
Yes, it is a dereliction of our responsibility. However, perhaps our society is in this position because of the vilification of professionals when they make mistakes. Social workers and their management are vilified by the media for making incorrect professional judgements, whether that be leaving children with abusive parents or removing them when they make a misjudgement the other way. Who amongst the rest of us could confidently make decisions in our jobs in that kind of environment ? A better way forward would be the removal of journalists and politicians from the process.

I agree, and the 24 hour news media doesn't help with hours to kill to pore over every wrong decision and ensuring that politicians feel they have to be seen to be doing something or have an opinion on everything

Seasidesage · Jan 19, 2017

Force them to mix in the general prison population, the rest of it will take care of itself..

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What's an appropriate sentence for a crime such as this?

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