Anyone out there a Vegetarian or Vegan ?

nigeyb · Jan 31, 2017

knocky1 said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/lifefa...and-cancer-risk-scientists-find-a6959291.html

A scientific study differs and unfortunately the new gene is not good news for veggies and us nearly veggies. The study was done in predominately Vegetarian cultures such as India which has over half a billion vegetarians.

The problem is Omega 6 leading to risk of heart disease and inflammation. Something I have a lot of from linseeds, chia seeds and nuts.

What a bullshit article - or at least bullshit headline. In essence it's highly speculative - if this happens then this might happen...

Why not highlight the multitude of scientific studies* which have been properly peer-reviewed and which prove that a plant based diet reduces a person's risk of cancer, heart disease, dementia, strokes etc. and statistically increases the number of years of good health they will enjoy throughout their lifespan

Also hidden inside the article are more significant facts like...

A recent study by researchers at the University of Oxford found that millions of lives could be saved annually by the year 2050 if people adopt vegetarian diets.

“Imbalanced diets, such as diets low in fruits and vegetables, and high in red and processed meat, are responsible for the greatest health burden globally and in most regions,

*One of the most compelling studies is the ongoing study of the vegetarian (and some vegan) Adventists who live in California...

https://news.adventist.org/en/all-c...-indicate-a-long-healthy-life-is-no-accident/

Diego Napier · Jan 31, 2017

Triggaaar said:
Evolution was survival of the fittest. If people did well, they lived longer and could support bigger families, so passed on their genes to more people. Not needing animal protein isn't a new gene and it's not something that's being passed on to more people.

It seems that evolution is currently favouring those that don't use contraception. So some religions or areas without access, which might have a bias to some races of people.

I wasn't suggesting that not needing animal protein was associated with a new gene, you've made that assumption. People have always needed protein and from any source available, being omnivores it was sometimes derived from animals. Nowadays people have a choice and for cultural (religious, health, moral) rather than evolutionary or genetic reasons, increasing numbers eschew meat. (do you like what I did there?). A new gene is your invention not mine.

btw, "Evolution is/was the survival of the fittest", like all good aphorisms, contains a general but not absolute truth. It was a catchy phrase borrowed by Darwin from Spencer to help make more accessible his "The variation of plants and animals under domestication". However, evolution isn't just about the biggest and and fiercest surviving and the domestication bit is apposite. In evolutionary terms, cattle are one of the most successful animals on the planet. If their ancestors hadn't been captured, domesticated and selectively bred by people they would be lucky to number a few million. Their symbiotic relationship with us has resulted in great evolutionary success, there are 1.3 billion approx. of them alive today. Of course, with 300 million being slaughtered daily, their quality of life is not an evolutionary consideration. Sheep and goats enjoy almost as much evolutionary success, chickens even more so.

Triggaaar · Jan 31, 2017

Diego Napier said:
I wasn't suggesting that not needing animal protein was associated with a new gene, you've made that assumption.

Ok - so what did you mean by "Humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed."?

In evolutionary terms, cattle are one of the most successful animals on the planet. If their ancestors hadn't been captured, domesticated and selectively bred by people they would be lucky to number a few million. Their symbiotic relationship with us has resulted in great evolutionary success, there are 1.3 billion approx. of them alive today. Of course, with 300 million being slaughtered daily, their quality of life is not an evolutionary consideration.

You're saying that about 1/4 of cattle are being slaughtered daily. I'm guessing you've got your figures wrong.

Bakero · Jan 31, 2017

JCL666 said:
We make almond milk at home,

Firstly, thank for a very Brighton comment that you wouldn't find on any other football forum.

JCL666 said:
just soak them overnight and then remove the almonds, super cheap in comparison to buying it and not that much faff.

What do you soak them in?

Diego Napier · Jan 31, 2017

Triggaaar said:
Ok - so what did you mean by "Humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed."?

I meant that, through cultural choice and environmental impact, for example canine teeth will continue to shrink, jaws become smaller, eyesight weaken, hair become superfluous. The extent to which we embrace automation, artificial intelligence and genetic manipulation will no doubt greatly influence our evolution.

Triggaaar said:
You're saying that about 1/4 of cattle are being slaughtered daily. I'm guessing you've got your figures wrong.

I'm guessing I did, make that annually!

FatSuperman · Jan 31, 2017

Motogull said:
I'm giving dairy a swerve at the moment. Currently looking for an alternative to the oestrogen-rich soya milk. I've got some cashew in the fridge. I hate coconut and almonds. How strong are the flavours of those milks?

I've tried loads of milk alternatives this month, at least these ones:

Soya milk
Coconut milk
Almond milk
almond & coconut milk
Hemp milk
Rice milk
Oat milk

For my taste buds, by far the best choice for coffee or tea is the 'Oatly foamable' oat milk. I wait until Sainsbury's have it on offer then stock up. I can't stand it in cereal though.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/oatly-foamable-1l?langId=44&storeId=10151&krypto=6JszByXH%2BCp7xstt2xXYAqEiEU1V9ptp5OwAF3ku%2BdvCHHl3hzxJImlhAWf0ZvHMjn3jV7D7LGj%2Fi6mZjfUVIW%2FQCECs6%2BUKJmWVFW0KnBlYdQg6YNkxMshDmMQ7QBlY&ddkey=http%3Agb%2Fgroceries%2Foatly-foamable-1l

nigeyb · Jan 31, 2017

FatSuperman said:
For my taste buds, by far the best choice for coffee or tea is the 'Oatly foamable' oat milk. I wait until Sainsbury's have it on offer then stock up. I can't stand it in cereal though.

Thanks FS.

I've been meaning to try that one as I quite like an occasional frothy latte style coffee. I'll give it a try.

Triggaaar · Jan 31, 2017

Diego Napier said:
I wasn't suggesting that not needing animal protein was associated with a new gene, you've made that assumption.

It looks like that is what you're saying:

Diego Napier said:
I meant that, through cultural choice and environmental impact, for example canine teeth will continue to shrink, jaws become smaller, eyesight weaken, hair become superfluous.

What's that got to do with animal protein? How will not needing animal protein lead to any of those changes?

knocky1 · Jan 31, 2017

nigeyb said:
What a bullshit article - or at least bullshit headline. In essence it's highly speculative - if this happens then this might happen...

Why not highlight the multitude of scientific studies* which have been properly peer-reviewed and which prove that a plant based diet reduces a person's risk of cancer, heart disease, dementia, strokes etc. and statistically increases the number of years of good health they will enjoy throughout their lifespan

Also hidden inside the article are more significant facts like...

A recent study by researchers at the University of Oxford found that millions of lives could be saved annually by the year 2050 if people adopt vegetarian diets.

“Imbalanced diets, such as diets low in fruits and vegetables, and high in red and processed meat, are responsible for the greatest health burden globally and in most regions,

*One of the most compelling studies is the ongoing study of the vegetarian (and some vegan) Adventists who live in California...

https://news.adventist.org/en/all-c...-indicate-a-long-healthy-life-is-no-accident/

I fully agree with you. I was quoting the study as proof that vegetarian cultures can adapt over time to being vegetarian. I highlighted the Omega 6 issue as I am looking into the balance between omega 3 and omega 6 in my diet due to inflammation. It seems red meat and processed oils have higher levels of omega 6 but I still want to check my high intake of non meat oils and fats. As to those Adventists it's a great example of the advantages of eating vegetable based diets but I'd rather die early than be one of those in the US at the current time.

Diego Napier · Jan 31, 2017

Triggaaar said:
It looks like that is what you're saying:
What's that got to do with animal protein? How will not needing animal protein lead to any of those changes?

It won't, you seem confused, let's recap.

Dangull posted:

Humans are designed to eat meat, that's why we have sharp teeth, rather than just molars.

I refuted that, indicating what may once have been true is no longer the case:

That's also boll0cks; humans have evolved to take advantage of a variety of food sources. We are omnivores not carnivores, our canines teeth are remnants of a time before our ancestors controlled fire when they ripped raw meat from bones; in the same way increasing numbers of humans never develop wisdom teeth as large powerful chewing jaws have become redundant. Humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed.

You responded to the last sentence with:

That's not how we're evolving now.

and after further prompting

Evolution was survival of the fittest. If people did well, they lived longer and could support bigger families, so passed on their genes to more people. Not needing animal protein isn't a new gene and it's not something that's being passed on to more people.

To which I replied:

I wasn't suggesting that not needing animal protein was associated with a new gene, you've made that assumption. People have always needed protein and from any source available, being omnivores it was sometimes derived from animals. Nowadays people have a choice and for cultural (religious, health, moral) rather than evolutionary or genetic reasons, increasing numbers eschew meat. (do you like what I did there?). A new gene is your invention not mine.

You responded to the initial sentence with:

Ok - so what did you mean by "Humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed."?

And I responded by providing some examples:

I meant that, through cultural choice and environmental impact, for example canine teeth will continue to shrink, jaws become smaller, eyesight weaken, hair become superfluous. The extent to which we embrace automation, artificial intelligence and genetic manipulation will no doubt greatly influence our evolution.

Indicating that those changes will take place irrespective of the ingestion of animal protein, i.e. it is not needed. I could equally have included people will live longer or some will grow taller or make far more efficient use of their brains, the point I'm trying to illustrate is that humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed.

beorhthelm · Jan 31, 2017

Diego Napier said:
btw, "Evolution is/was the survival of the fittest", like all good aphorisms, contains a general but not absolute truth. It was a catchy phrase borrowed by Darwin from Spencer to help make more accessible his "The variation of plants and animals under domestication". However, evolution isn't just about the biggest and and fiercest surviving and the domestication bit is apposite. In evolutionary terms, cattle are one of the most successful animals on the planet. If their ancestors hadn't been captured, domesticated and selectively bred by people they would be lucky to number a few million. Their symbiotic relationship with us has resulted in great evolutionary success, there are 1.3 billion approx. of them alive today. Of course, with 300 million being slaughtered daily, their quality of life is not an evolutionary consideration. Sheep and goats enjoy almost as much evolutionary success, chickens even more so.

sounds like tasting good to humans is an evolutionary advantage. it would be remiss to deny their continued evolution, so im going to keep eating them. :lolol:

good point about survival of the fittest though, it doesn't really translate to the evolution of most species. survival of the least worse is probably more accurate but not so catchy.

Diego Napier · Jan 31, 2017

beorhthelm said:
sounds like tasting good to humans is an evolutionary advantage. it would be remiss to deny their continued evolution, so im going to keep eating them.

I can only applaud the altruism of the cross you'll continue to bear!

Triggaaar · Feb 1, 2017

Diego Napier said:
It won't, you seem confused

Yes, fair enough. I understood your comment "Humans will continue to evolve, animal protein is no longer needed" to mean "Humans will continue to evolve, because animal protein is no longer needed."

s5.bha · Feb 1, 2017

Every now and then my wife will announce she is going vegetarian for the next month , luckily she is Thai so the food she prepares is interesting and flavoursome.
I think the problem some people have changing to a vegetarian diet is the time or inability to cook .

JCL666 · Feb 1, 2017

knocky1 said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/lifefa...and-cancer-risk-scientists-find-a6959291.html

A scientific study differs and unfortunately the new gene is not good news for veggies and us nearly veggies. The study was done in predominately Vegetarian cultures such as India which has over half a billion vegetarians.

The problem is Omega 6 leading to risk of heart disease and inflammation. Something I have a lot of from linseeds, chia seeds and nuts.

The scientists actually said they were misrepresented.

http://indianexpress.com/article/li...not-increase-cancer-risk-researchers-clarify/

Here is the actual study https://goo.gl/glgbEB

The study does not suggest that being vegetarian will cause genetic changes that will put future generations at risk. The hypothesis is that the gene was selected because it gave those who had it an evolutionary advantage. The associated conditions are not present in the modern world.

JCL666 · Feb 1, 2017

Bakero said:
Firstly, thank for a very Brighton comment that you wouldn't find on any other football forum.

What do you soak them in?

Haha you're welcome!!!

Just soak them in tap water.

knocky1 · Feb 2, 2017

JCL666 said:
The scientists actually said they were misrepresented.

http://indianexpress.com/article/li...not-increase-cancer-risk-researchers-clarify/

Here is the actual study https://goo.gl/glgbEB

The study does not suggest that being vegetarian will cause genetic changes that will put future generations at risk. The hypothesis is that the gene was selected because it gave those who had it an evolutionary advantage. The associated conditions are not present in the modern world.

Thanks. That's how I meant to portray it. Omega 6 is inflammatory though but as I do not get it from red meat or cook with certain vegetable oils a minor threat. I am well above normal risk of future inflammation around my organs, due to Rheumatoid arthritis flare ups, and have set myself omega 6 limits. Difficult balance as I need omega 3 but ok as a pesky tarian.
No more than 4 Brazil nuts a day, macadamia and cashews in abundance but limiting pumpkin and sunflower seeds and halving the chia seed intake. Oils coconut and olive.

knocky1 · Feb 2, 2017

Omega 3

mega 6 ratio explained but I can only get the gist. I'm doing OK.

http://www.zonediet.com/blog/what-are-the-real-differences-between-epa-and-dha/

pearl · Jun 8, 2017

question for Vegans

This morning I noticed a 'vegan' symbol on my coconut shower gel, so do you look for this symbol on everything you buy? How extreme does it get?

whitelion · Jun 8, 2017

http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...-there-a-Vegetarian-or-Vegan&highlight=Vegans

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