Is the lack of available GP's to blame for NHS crisis?

studio150 · Jan 14, 2017

Too many whimps about who are prepared to spend a few hours in A&E wanting a free plaster for a paper cut.
We need stiffer backbones and more people like the Black Knight who may lose an arm or two but treat it as just a flesh wound and don't go running to A&E.
Unless you've had a personal invite from the grim reaper stay away and cure thyself.

Lord Bracknell · Jan 14, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
Not sure what constituency you live in [MENTION=6]Lord Bracknell[/MENTION], but apart from our local A&E, Mount Vernon (non A&E) has a minor injuries unit.
Is this available where you live?

We have the Victoria Hospital in Lewes, which is handy for the folk who can use it, but it doesn't seem to have much of an impact on how busy the RSCH gets.

JC Footy Genius · Jan 14, 2017

synavm said:
I'm a little bit tired of people pinning everything on immigrants. It really is a false flag. You're looking at a net population growth of 0.6%- about 300,000 people a year. This takes into account births and immigration and at this level, it's fairly manageable.

The big issue here is capacity, but population growth is inevitable with or without immigration. Our hospitals, on the most part, were designed for the population as it was decades ago. We badly need to make use of our tax receipts (and if need be, increase them by going after avoidance), including tax raised by migrants (who make a net contribution) and invest in our infrastructure and prepare for our future, which will involve population growth regardless of the sort of immigration controls you put in.

That's not to say I'm against controls on immigration, by the way, clearly they are needed but it really is simplistic to blame everything on immigration, and the longer we fixate ourselves on it, the worse off we will be, because we're ignoring the real issues.

Obviously pinning everything on immigration causing NHS problems is innacurate but it is one contributory factor along with ageing population, lack of funding, cuts to social care, poor intergration of services/planning etc.

Population growth is mainly driven by immigration .. is forecast to hit 70 million in 10 years time and is a very real issue.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 15, 2017

Quinney said:
The last Labour Government have a lot to answer for. Allowing the GP's to opt out of providing out of hour services was a big mistake. Having a massive knock on effect on A&E services.

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What's the big deal with taking a few hours out of your day to see a doctor? I really struggle to comprehend why this is such an issue. It's really peculiar.

ThePompousPaladin · Jan 15, 2017

goldstone said:
The NHS crisis (if indeed there really is one) is caused by there being far too many fecking people in this country. Same reason for our roads being overcrowded. Same reason for the apparent housing crisis.

This country is FULL and has been for a number of years. We do not have, nor do we want the infrastructure for any more people.

Isn't more to do with lack of investment?

crookie · Jan 15, 2017

Very complex issue. Govt may have maintained NHS funding but cuts to local councils leads to cuts in social care and subsequent bed-blocking by elderly patients as they have nowhere suitable to go upon discharge. Population growth no doubt adds to the pressure but can only be a very minor part of it. People turning up and clogging up A&E with minor ailments that could be self-treated or treated by a pharmacist/GP all add to the pressure. Would more money help ? Undoubtedly, but you could probably double the budget and it would still plead for more. And where is the money to come from ? We don't have any. More debt for our kids and grandchildren to pay off because we are not prepared to pay the taxes to fund the services that we demand for ourselves ? Perhaps it needs a radical rethink of what the NHS is for, and how much we are prepared to pay for it. Maybe things like fertility treatment/cosmetic surgery etc are just unaffordable in this day and age. It would be great if the NHS could do everything but unless we are prepared to see perhaps a 5p in the pound tax rise to pay for it, maybe we need to accept it has limitations within the budget, we, as taxpayers are prepared to pay for it.

Notters · Jan 15, 2017

goldstone said:
The NHS crisis (if indeed there really is one) is caused by there being far too many fecking people in this country. Same reason for our roads being overcrowded. Same reason for the apparent housing crisis.

This country is FULL and has been for a number of years. We do not have, nor do we want the infrastructure for any more people.

This makes no sense whatsoever, as you're saying that this country's infrastructure can't cope because it doesn't have the infrastructure.

alfredmizen · Jan 15, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
What's the big deal with taking a few hours out of your day to see a doctor? I really struggle to comprehend why this is such an issue. It's really peculiar.

You're self employed HT , it.really is a big deal for some people.

drew · Jan 15, 2017

The problem is not with the GPs according to those in the NHS, it is the bed blocking that prevents a throughput of patients from A&E into the various wards, mainly by the elderly who, when they are able to be discharged, aren't because there is no or little provision in social care. Blaming the GPs is merely deflecting the blame from budgetary choices made by the Government. Reducing money to local councils will inevitably hit their budgets and one area that has suffered is social care.

With regard to appointments with GPs, I can't get one for maybe one or two weeks but if I need to see a doctor that day, our surgery has emergency clinic everyday from 11 and you join the queue (much less than time than queuing at A&E. If you have a non-urgent issue you need to discuss with your GP then why can't people wait a couple of weeks?

And if you feel you need to see a doctor about something then why shouldn't you take time off work to do that? Isn't your health that important?

Brovion · Jan 15, 2017

Quinney said:
The last Labour Government have a lot to answer for. Allowing the GP's to opt out of providing out of hour services was a big mistake. Having a massive knock on effect on A&E services.

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It's certainly a major contributory factor. We need a family-friendly, flexible NHS rather than trying to cram us all into a narrow time frame.

However it is just one of the many, many things that are wrong with the NHS, there's no one single cause. It's over 70 years old and it's showing its age.

Hastings gull · Jan 15, 2017

synavm said:
I'm a little bit tired of people pinning everything on immigrants. It really is a false flag. You're looking at a net population growth of 0.6%- about 300,000 people a year. This takes into account births and immigration and at this level, it's fairly manageable.

The big issue here is capacity, but population growth is inevitable with or without immigration. Our hospitals, on the most part, were designed for the population as it was decades ago. We badly need to make use of our tax receipts (and if need be, increase them by going after avoidance), including tax raised by migrants (who make a net contribution) and invest in our infrastructure and prepare for our future, which will involve population growth regardless of the sort of immigration controls you put in.

That's not to say I'm against controls on immigration, by the way, clearly they are needed but it really is simplistic to blame everything on immigration, and the longer we fixate ourselves on it, the worse off we will be, because we're ignoring the real issues.

I think perhaps that the obsession about immigration might be yours? There are many factors which explain the apparent crisis, of which immigration is pone, and it is rare to hear that anyone says it is solely due to immigration.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 15, 2017

I remember my dad and my nan being stuck on trolleys for hours in A&E, and that was under a Labour government. I think they have a right fing nerve telling everyone the NHS is failing after the mess they made of things.

If we want more Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals then reality is we all have to pay a bit more, and also start training our own Doctors and Nurses, give them free education on the understanding they commit to the NHS for 10-15 years.

BensGrandad · Jan 15, 2017

I must be very fortunate as I phone in the morning and always get an appointment during that day usually during their sit and wait open surgery 12- 1pm where I am seen by any of the practice doctors not necessarily the one I am registered with. It must be said I havent used A&E for some years.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 15, 2017

alfredmizen said:
You're self employed HT , it.really is a big deal for some people.

I've not always been self-employed though. When I was employed I was always allowed time off for doctors and dentists. Is the issue with making up lost hours, losing money, or employers not allowing staff to see doctors during company hours?

Steve in Japan · Jan 15, 2017

1. I'm not sure if it's any more in crisis than usual. We live in a world where news is always dramatised for our consumption. And there are very few news sources which don't have an agenda.
2. Having said that, the ageing population, increased levels of dementia, and the lack of care solutions for those affected must be having a huge impact. Bed blocking is one of the outcomes, but also falls, fractures etc etc all result in more demand.
3. Could GPs and pharmacists help more by being open longer? Yes IMHO.

The Birdman · Jan 15, 2017

We do need to get more nurses and doctors we have growing population we all need to do our bit I am still proud of our NHS 20million Americans are going to lose health care in one of the riches countries in the world.
My surgery can take another 2000 residences it has the space but needs another Doctor. It's does many of the things I used to go to the hospital for,we do need to develope new working practises to cope with changing needs.

Quinney · Jan 15, 2017

Brovion said:
It's certainly a major contributory factor. We need a family-friendly, flexible NHS rather than trying to cram us all into a narrow time frame.

However it is just one of the many, many things that are wrong with the NHS, there's no one single cause. It's over 70 years old and it's showing its age.

Totally agree, it's one of many factors. Lack of social care beds resulting in bed blocking is another along with ignorance as to what warrants going to A&E. If people are able to sit and wait in A&E for 4-6 hours then I would suggest that the vast majority don't need to be there. There are other options, walk in centres, chemists etc.

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clippedgull · Jan 15, 2017

I agree with the earlier post about free education for health workers with a contractual commitment upon qualification. I have no idea of the economics of that but some money could be raised by means testing pensioners benefits and raising taxes so we all contribute to get the service up to 21st century expectations. We all use it at some time so we all need to chip more in!

Lush · Jan 15, 2017

We're not training enough doctors (think of the bright young people who can't get into medicine). We're not encouraging people to be nurses when at school. Presumably it's cheaper to get in ready trained people from abroad, but maybe it's tougher now that they've had to raise qualification and English standards. Then we're letting the doctors whose training you and I have paid for work in private practice. Imagine what it's going to be like when all the hospital staff trained in Europe leave.

Ernest · Jan 15, 2017

Lush said:
We're not training enough doctors (think of the bright young people who can't get into medicine). We're not encouraging people to be nurses when at school. Presumably it's cheaper to get in ready trained people from abroad, but maybe it's tougher now that they've had to raise qualification and English standards. Then we're letting the doctors whose training you and I have paid for work in private practice. Imagine what it's going to be like when all the hospital staff trained in Europe leave.

And making nurses pay for their own training will hardly help

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Is the lack of available GP's to blame for NHS crisis?

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