BBC 2 programme - Hospital

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

lawros left foot said:
I would have to have iron clad assurances that such a system would work, to even consider it. You hear so many instances of insurance companies trying to wriggle out of their obligations, and, in fact, have been a victim of it myself, where they refused to re-imburse me for a minor traffic accident,that wasn't my fault, and that was less than a grand. When it comes to tens of thousands of pounds for medical care, I can see nothing but problems.

Yes, I see this totally, and insurance companies do try it on, but I have never heard of anyone being short-changed like this in Germany regarding health. You visit your (hausarzt) GP, he recommends this and that -you go to the Krankenhaus, you get the op or whatever, and the Krankenkasse pays.

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
we do not live in Germany
they are saying that by 2020 we will have a similar population to the Germans
and you must be joking the tories will cherry pick the bits they want and **** the rest of us
just like the USA if you cannot afford it you either shut up or die pity the Big man cannot have another 4 years

Yet again -someone who is totally unwilling on ideological grounds to countenance anything other than what he wants, and then tries to justify with the most crass reasoning.

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
it used to work and very well and most countries looked up to our national health
did you watch the programme

I hear this all the time that other countries look up to our system, but in all honesty have never read anything to back this up. It might have worked well many years ago, but the many current pressures on the NHS were not there in, for example, the 60s. Exepectation/ageing population/increase in population; huge medical advances -to name but a few.

Bob'n'weave · Jan 12, 2017

IMHO the NHS is part of what I pay my taxes for. I don't mind that other people less fortunate than myself benefit from my contributions, it means the NHS is there for everyone. "Managers" within the NHS are at complete odds with what the hippocratic oath stands for and are a complete waste of money. Take away the bean counting morons and their huge salaries, who know f*** all about treating people, and we may be on the road to a more productive NHS.

glasfryn · Jan 12, 2017

Hastings gull said:
I hear this all the time that other countries look up to our system, but in all honesty have never read anything to back this up. It might have worked well many years ago, but the many current pressures on the NHS were not there in, for example, the 60s. Exepectation/ageing population/increase in population; huge medical advances -to name but a few.

maybe we all should move to Germany
seems everyone else is
or maybe you should as you seem to think things are a lot better there than here

most of which were made by British Doctors

lawros left foot · Jan 12, 2017

I will put my cards on the table, politically,I lean to the left, however, I do think that something will need to be done about health care, and social care in this country in the immediate future.
My problem is,I believe Doctors and other medical professionals are the best people to sort it out, not politicians, and particularly Tory politicians,whose track record with privatising essential services has been sketchy at best, and who really have only ever paid lip service to the NHS, throughout its history.
As has been said, by others,some politicos of the Blue persuasion seem to view health as a massive opportunity for massive profit,and,I maybe wrong, but I don't trust them.

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
maybe we all should move to Germany
seems everyone else is
or maybe you should as you seem to think things are a lot better there than here
most of which were made by British Doctors

Try growing up for goodness sake. Each country will have its good and bad points -this is about health only!

glasfryn · Jan 12, 2017

Hastings gull said:
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Yet again -someone who is totally unwilling on ideological grounds to countenance anything other than what he wants, and then tries to justify with the most crass reasoning.

here's a bit of crass reasoning for you
5th richest country in the world
where does that fit into the health tables of the world
try telling all this to the relatives who had people waiting on a trolly in a hallway outside a toilet and then had the cheak to go and die after being there for god knows how long

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

lawros left foot said:
I will put my cards on the table, politically,I lean to the left, however, I do think that something will need to be done about health care, and social care in this country in the immediate future.
My problem is,I believe Doctors and other medical professionals are the best people to sort it out, not politicians, and particularly Tory politicians,whose track record with privatising essential services has been sketchy at best, and who really have only ever paid lip service to the NHS, throughout its history.
As has been said, by others,some politicos of the Blue persuasion seem to view health as a massive opportunity for massive profit,and,I maybe wrong, but I don't trust them.

Care to name them or is this just bias? Of course doctors are the best people, and this is why on another thread I have made the plea to take politics out of the debate about health, and let us all genuinely try for something that we are convinced will give the best service for all. It might be that those of a blue persuasion have realised that the NHS as it is, might not be the best solution. But are you willing to genuinely reflect on what is best -your post suggests otherwise.

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
here's a bit of crass reasoning for you
5th richest country in the world
where does that fit into the health tables of the world
try telling all this to the relatives who had people waiting on a trolly in a hallway outside a toilet and then had the cheak to go and die after being there for god knows how long

Yes, so should not this be telling you that something is wrong with the current model?

glasfryn · Jan 12, 2017

Hastings gull said:
Try growing up for goodness sake. Each country will have its good and bad points -this is about health only!

you are the one who bought it up

glasfryn · Jan 12, 2017

Hastings gull said:
Yes, so should not this be telling you that something is wrong with the current model?

yes as usual the tories are ****ing it up again
in fact you cannot trust any of them (MP's)

lawros left foot · Jan 12, 2017

It's bias,built on previous experience, the privatisation of gas, electric,water,and, in particular,the railways. It seems that we are conned into agreeing to privatise,and then foreign companies eventually end up owning our services. I don't want the health care in this country sold or to the highest bidder in a similar fashion.

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
you are the one who bought it up

Perhaps you should read this again? My claim was regarding the absurd simplicity of what you wrote

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
yes as usual the tories are ****ing it up again
in fact you cannot trust any of them (MP's)

Utterly pointless debating this with you, isn't it? will we ever get a better healthcare service with people like you?

Hastings gull · Jan 12, 2017

lawros left foot said:
It's bias,built on previous experience, the privatisation of gas, electric,water,and, in particular,the railways. It seems that we are conned into agreeing to privatise,and then foreign companies eventually end up owning our services. I don't want the health care in this country sold or to the highest bidder in a similar fashion.

OK I see this, though, to be fair, perhaps we should not judge all the railway companies by Southern's standards, and of course are you really implying that British Rail was any better? This is my point - not all privatisation is for the best, (witness the shambles with the ambulance firm) and nationalisation is not always successful. We must approach healthcare with a totally open mind, but the politicos will now want that.

lawros left foot · Jan 12, 2017

Hastings gull said:
OK I see this, though, to be fair, perhaps we should not judge all the railway companies by Southern's standards, and of course are you really implying that British Rail was any better? This is my point - not all privatisation is for the best, (witness the shambles with the ambulance firm) and nationalisation is not always successful. We must approach healthcare with a totally open mind, but the politicos will now want that.

I was a fairly regular commuter on British Rail, as well as long journeys quite often(Worthing to Edinburgh) and always thought BR wasn't that bad. I would like to see proposals from all persuasions on the Health service, but, I do think that whichever final plan was implemented, it will cost the country far more than most politicians will be prepared to pay. I also agree that there appears to be an awful lot of waste and perhaps, even treatment ant procedures that shouldn't come under the auspices of the NHS.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 12, 2017

Wouldn't give a stuff paying twenty quid a month for health insurance, if that meant all hospitals where properly funded from top to bottom, because I am so sick of the NHS being used as a political football. There should be no politics inside hospitals either but what feels totally clear to me is the likes of the Labour party get everyone riled up over the NHS.

alfredmizen · Jan 12, 2017

glasfryn said:
it used to work and very well and most countries looked up to our national health
did you watch the programme

I didn't watch it mate , genuinely not after an argument on this one , just making a suggestion that perhaps times have moved on and with medical advances etc perhaps it's time we had another look at how it's funded , I certainly wouldn't want the US model , but the countries i have mentioned plus lots of others the system seems to work well.0

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 12, 2017

alfredmizen said:
I didn't watch it mate , genuinely not after an argument on this one , just making a suggestion that perhaps times have moved on and with medical advances etc perhaps it's time we had another look at how it's funded , I certainly wouldn't want the US model , but the countries i have mentioned plus lots of others the system seems to work well.0

Agree, and get the politics out of it.

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