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  1. #31
    Members larus's Avatar
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    5 Not allowed!
    I know some people are anti 'The Rich', i.e. the gun wielding grouse shooters. But to link people who shoot for sport to someone who (from the comments on here) is a questionable character and probably a drug dealer/criminal is absolutely pathetic.

    He was charged and acquitted with murder and was carrying a gun. In my life I have never felt the need to carry a gun. How many on here have? Surely that must say a lot about the type of person he was.

    It's the typical response of "Oh look. The police shot someone. Aren't they brutal". Then, next week if we're subjected to a terrorist attack (I'm not saying for one moment he was), then the same would be saying "why didn't the police/authorities do something about it?".

    Sometime, to protect the general public, some of the more 'colourful' characters may end up as victims too - but don't confuse them with sweet, innocent people.

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    • #32
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      3 Not allowed!
      He was a bad man and he lived with the gun and died with the gun.
    • #33
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by T.G View Post
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      So fair game to shoot all the gun wielding grouse shooters then!
      Yes yes, that would be comparable ........
    • #34
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      7 Not allowed!
      You don't get charged to court on an attempted murder charge unless there is some evidence against you and that wouldn't just be one dodgy key witness, you don't previously get shot at unless you are incredibly unlucky or involved in some serious criminality, you don't swan around in 40 grand motors with no job or apparent source of income unless you have very rich parents (he didn't) or are a drug dealer. You don't carry a gun unless you have a lawful reason to carry one, if you have an unlawful reason to carry one then you can expect to get shot if you carry it with you. This isn't a question over whether he deserved to die or not its a question over whether the risks and choices he took significantly contributed to his own death, I'd say they did and he only has himself to blame.
    • #35

      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by mikeyjh View Post
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      Oh, that was aimed at me - Ages since I was accused of being a sweet young teen, that's kind of weird you know.

      Okay, so if we're have a mature discussion, my issue with your post is as follows:- You've taken an established fact in that he was acquitted of a serious charge (it was attempted murder, not murder) and casually implied that basically he was guilty. In fact, the judge in the case referred to the key witness as being 'one of the least compelling witnesses that he had seen in 35 years', the case was therefore thrown out.

      Then rest of your post is full of hyperbole based on supposition using as a source that I made an educated guess to be our old friend the Daily Mail. You've then concluded that acquittal of crime + allegations of drug dealing + having expensive cars + having a DIY home security setup = Death sentence.

      You may, or may not, be a Daily Mail reader (I think you are), but your post is a classic DM reader summary.
      As I've already told you , all the "hyperbole " that you made an "educated guess" about was also printed in the guardian , you have also revealed your naivety by stating you hadn't seen anything to.suggest he was a Muslim, he was called mohammed for crying out.loud
    • #36
      Disenfranchised Trufflehound's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by alfredmizen View Post
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      you have also revealed your naivety by stating you hadn't seen anything to.suggest he was a Muslim, he was called mohammed for crying out.loud
      I have a "Christian" name. I'm not a Christian. What does a name prove?
      Beer in the Netherlands - "Probably the best beer guide to the Netherlands ever written." - Trufflehound.
    • #37
      Members mikeyjh's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by The Fifth Column View Post
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      You don't get charged to court on an attempted murder charge unless there is some evidence against you and that wouldn't just be one dodgy key witness, you don't previously get shot at unless you are incredibly unlucky or involved in some serious criminality, you don't swan around in 40 grand motors with no job or apparent source of income unless you have very rich parents (he didn't) or are a drug dealer. You don't carry a gun unless you have a lawful reason to carry one, if you have an unlawful reason to carry one then you can expect to get shot if you carry it with you. This isn't a question over whether he deserved to die or not its a question over whether the risks and choices he took significantly contributed to his own death, I'd say they did and he only has himself to blame.
      Okay, my problem here is not with any idea that Mr Yaqub is some angel, it is with how quickly we use a set of suppositions to form a conviction. If I can take some of your points to address:-

      "You don't get charged to court on an attempted murder charge unless there is some evidence against you and that wouldn't just be one dodgy key witness" - 'Before discharging the jury, Judge Marson told them that there would be no case against Yaqub without the evidence of Mr Hussain and courts had to treat such cases with very great care.'

      "you don't swan around in 40 grand motors with no job or apparent source of income unless you have very rich parents (he didn't) or are a drug dealer" - 'Mr Yaqub's father Mohammed is a well-known local businessman and property owner in the Crosland Moor area of the town'. Additionally, you've have reached the conclusion about the apparent source of income. I have a £40k car, do you know how I afford that?

      "You don't carry a gun unless you have a lawful reason to carry one, if you have an unlawful reason to carry one then you can expect to get shot if you carry it with you" - Gun was found in car he was travelling in, a not so subtle difference

      In short, I know nothing I've said above presents any great defence for this individual but it does show how flimsy some of the arguments are that people are using to justify the shooting and that maybe we should step back a little, sometimes.
    • #38
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      5 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by mikeyjh View Post
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      Okay, my problem here is not with any idea that Mr Yaqub is some angel, it is with how quickly we use a set of suppositions to form a conviction. If I can take some of your points to address:-

      "You don't get charged to court on an attempted murder charge unless there is some evidence against you and that wouldn't just be one dodgy key witness" - 'Before discharging the jury, Judge Marson told them that there would be no case against Yaqub without the evidence of Mr Hussain and courts had to treat such cases with very great care.'

      "you don't swan around in 40 grand motors with no job or apparent source of income unless you have very rich parents (he didn't) or are a drug dealer" - 'Mr Yaqub's father Mohammed is a well-known local businessman and property owner in the Crosland Moor area of the town'. Additionally, you've have reached the conclusion about the apparent source of income. I have a £40k car, do you know how I afford that?

      "You don't carry a gun unless you have a lawful reason to carry one, if you have an unlawful reason to carry one then you can expect to get shot if you carry it with you" - Gun was found in car he was travelling in, a not so subtle difference

      In short, I know nothing I've said above presents any great defence for this individual but it does show how flimsy some of the arguments are that people are using to justify the shooting and that maybe we should step back a little, sometimes.
      You're backing a loser with this one, you can wrap it up how you want, I havent really looked into this case dont need to ....... he's a wrong'un.
    • #39

      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by mikeyjh View Post
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      Okay, my problem here is not with any idea that Mr Yaqub is some angel, it is with how quickly we use a set of suppositions to form a conviction. If I can take some of your points to address:-

      "You don't get charged to court on an attempted murder charge unless there is some evidence against you and that wouldn't just be one dodgy key witness" - 'Before discharging the jury, Judge Marson told them that there would be no case against Yaqub without the evidence of Mr Hussain and courts had to treat such cases with very great care.'

      "you don't swan around in 40 grand motors with no job or apparent source of income unless you have very rich parents (he didn't) or are a drug dealer" - 'Mr Yaqub's father Mohammed is a well-known local businessman and property owner in the Crosland Moor area of the town'. Additionally, you've have reached the conclusion about the apparent source of income. I have a £40k car, do you know how I afford that?

      "You don't carry a gun unless you have a lawful reason to carry one, if you have an unlawful reason to carry one then you can expect to get shot if you carry it with you" - Gun was found in car he was travelling in, a not so subtle difference

      In short, I know nothing I've said above presents any great defence for this individual but it does show how flimsy some of the arguments are that people are using to justify the shooting and that maybe we should step back a little, sometimes.
      Jesus, I can't believe you find the time and energy to argue and defend someone with these long replies who is more than likely as guilty as sin.
      Its not how big the dog is in the fight,its how big the fight is in the dog.
    • #40
      Members Kalimantan Gull's Avatar
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      1 Not allowed!
      Quite a lot of hyperbole here. Of course his family and friends are going to be angry. Fatal shootings by the police are not the done thing here, I think this is West Yorkshire's first since 2010 - so people shouldn't act like this is perfectly OK, it needs investigating and anger from his relatives is to be expected. Equally this is no evidence of a police state being instigated. Indeed I find it heartening that as soon as this happens we have the IPCC involved and lots of debate, its a nice contrast to America where shootings by police occur on a daily basis

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