Well done Eric Pickles

Hastings gull · Dec 28, 2016

The Merry Prankster said:
I've yet to see evidence of non postal electoral fraud on any scale therefore I'd have to suspect ulterior motives at work here.

What does this mean in practice? Were you part of the investigation team?

happypig · Dec 28, 2016

Plooks said:
It is not exactly hard to get a passport...

It's not, I agree, but you're missing the point. If someone has to weigh out 70 notes (assuming they have someone who can countersign it for free) then the likelihood is they won't bother to vote.
If the people least likely to have (or have the means to obtain) a passport/driving license are younger and/or poorer people, is the proposal:

a. A serious way to get around electoral fraud

or

b. A cynical way to make people not inclined to vote Tory more likely not to vote at all ?

Hastings gull · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
I shall be in Hastings very early at the NEXT election to vote LABOUR for you

I very much doubt it -you probably would not be able to find your way and in any case, your mates on the trains will be on strike.

Neville's Breakfast · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
If there are no arrests how can there be a problem ? Surely the Tories wouldn't be exaggerating a non existent problem for their own gains ?

Lots of crime occurs unpunished by arrests. It is the responsibility of society to protect itself. I don't see what gains the Tory party would gain from improving the system of voter identification. Surely if there is no problem as you imply then there is nothing to be lost ? We have to prove our identity continually in modern life so it's about time something as important as our electoral system caught up. I don't think it necessary to prove the existence of electoral fraud before deciding voter identification is a good idea.

Ernest · Dec 28, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
Lots of crime occurs unpunished by arrests. It is the responsibility of society to protect itself. I don't see what gains the Tory party would gain from improving the system of voter identification. Surely if there is no problem as you imply then there is nothing to be lost ? We have to prove our identity continually in modern life so it's about time something as important as our electoral system caught up. I don't think it necessary to prove the existence of electoral fraud before deciding voter identification is a good idea.

How do you know if there is a problem if you have no proof ? Rumours aren't proof , even the Electoral Reform Society say this is a political stunt

studio150 · Dec 28, 2016

Two Professors said:
Will all be a complete waste of time and effort if there is not close scrutiny in the voting area.The habit of electoral officials turning a blind eye on certain minority males escorting their wives to the voting booth and pointing out where to put the X is becoming very tiresome!

I assume that you have seen this and have reported to the Police and the Returning Officer

studio150 · Dec 28, 2016

Cheshire Cat said:
They aren't particularly cheap either.

A standard adult first passport or renewal costs £72.50, or £82.25 if you use the Post Office’s Passport Check and Send service. Child passports cost £46, or £55.75 using Check and Send.

https://www.gov.uk/passport-fees

Another move to bring in ID cards by the back door?

Don;t forget £5 for passport photos from a photo booth

pastafarian · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
The funny thing is that every vote I get a polling card in the door and I take that to the vote where the guy then crosses off my name and gives me a voting slip so how do people get to vote twice if they haven't got a polling card and how is photo ID going to stop postal vote fraud ?

2014 report by the commission on fraud,

http://www.electoralcommission.org....64609/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

Eeyore · Dec 28, 2016

Swillis said:
Germans have to have either an identity card or a passport.

According to the German law of obligation of identification, it is compulsory for all German citizens age 16 or older to possess either an identity card or a passport. While police officers and some other officials have a right to demand to see one of these documents, the law does not stipulate that one is obliged to submit the document at that very moment.

As everyone in Germany must possess an ID card or a passport, acceptance of other official documents (like driving licences) as proof of identity is not guaranteed, especially for old driving licences with less security. Driving licences issued before 2013 are not replaced in Germany, so the same document is kept.

German citizens travelling inside Europe (except Belarus, Russia and Ukraine) or to Egypt, Georgia, Turkey and on organized tours to Morocco and Tunisia can use their ID card, which is a machine-readable travel document, instead of a passport.[1]

Just like German passports, German identity cards are valid for ten years (six years if the holder is under 24 on the date of issue).

The ID card currently costs €28.80 (€22.80 if the holder is under 24 on the date of issue).

So it's compulsory to spend 25 quid to prove who you are.

pastafarian · Dec 28, 2016

The Merry Prankster said:
I've yet to see evidence of non postal electoral fraud on any scale therefore I'd have to suspect ulterior motives at work here.

one bent vote is surely too many. doesnt need to be widespread/on a big scale before at least making an effort to curb it.

Ernest · Dec 28, 2016

pastafarian said:
one bent vote is surely too many. doesnt need to be widespread/on a big scale before at least making an effort to curb it.

As is one pound more than allowed spent in an attempt to fix an election

Neville's Breakfast · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
How do you know if there is a problem if you have no proof ? Rumours aren't proof , even the Electoral Reform Society say this is a political stunt

I have a vote, my vote is not transferable. Therefore I expect my vote to be protected just as I expect my bank account to be protected. Whenever I vote I am uncomfortable with the lack of security. In a similar way I lock my house when I go out even though there is no evidence of burglary in my area. Whether the Government's proposal is a political stunt or not is neither here nor there if it gets more protection for my vote.
Why does everything have to become a tit for tat party squabble ? I agree with you that overspending at elections needs to be addressed but the fact that this issue is ongoing should not prevent bringing electoral security into line with the modern world.

pastafarian · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
As is one pound more than allowed spent in an attempt to fix an election

tackle that as well then where there is illegality :shrug:

Ernest · Dec 28, 2016

pastafarian said:
tackle that as well then where there is illegality

Better ask all the Tory MP's helping the police with their enquiries then

Green Cross Code Man · Dec 28, 2016

Plooks said:
If you are not going to vote then its not a problem.

Haha, I meant a passport!

The Merry Prankster · Dec 28, 2016

Hastings gull said:
What does this mean in practice? Were you part of the investigation team?

pastafarian said:
one bent vote is surely too many. doesnt need to be widespread/on a big scale before at least making an effort to curb it.

Out of 31 000 000. votes cast in the 2015 election there were 26 cases of voter impersonation and 27 postal vote infringements. So I'd need to see more evidence of widespread fraud before I'd think this anything other than a waste of time and money. That's what it means in practice and no I wasn't on the investigation team to answer your fatuous question.

wellquickwoody · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
Another FAT pig with his snout in the trough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/shadow-cabinet-expenses/5634046/Eric-Pickles-expenses.html

Probably not as deeply as Mick Cash though...... :smile:

wellquickwoody · Dec 28, 2016

happypig said:
What about people who don't have a passport or driving license ? My mate's mrs has neither; all the bills are in his name too.

Need to become an adult?

happypig · Dec 28, 2016

studio150 said:
Don;t forget £5 for passport photos from a photo booth

Ah, well. Hang on there....

I thought that too so, when renewing my passport last month, I bunged a fiver into the machine in Sainos. Got some pictures of me looking like a sex offender, filled out the online form and found out you can upload a picture taken with your portable telephone; it even tells you how to do it properly. So you no longer need to splash the cash on some dodgy mugshots.

wellquickwoody · Dec 28, 2016

Ernest said:
If there are no arrests how can there be a problem ? Surely the Tories wouldn't be exaggerating a non existent problem for their own gains ?

So what exactly are you arguing against? Or are you just pursuing a political agenda formed out of that massive chip on your shoulder?

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