Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - 2016 Shootout

AK74 · Nov 28, 2016

Interesting story from the post-race coverage suggested that Hamilton told the team he was quitting after the incident with Rosberg in Spain.

He's undoubtedly an enormous talent in the car, but his behaviour out of it has all the hallmarks of an enormous bellend.

clippedgull · Nov 28, 2016

Diablo said:
Sadly Hamilton considers himself to be so important..More important in fact than the Team that has got him where he is....His blatant disregard for orders given to him could have cost the team dearly....Not a man I would want in a team at all.

Not sure how it could have cost the team.

Two drivers both going for the World Championship, two or three laps remaining. I can't blame Hamilton for trying to put Rosberg under pressure to make a mistake or get overtaken to give himself that minute chance to win it for himself.

Hillian1 · Nov 28, 2016

clippedgull said:
Not sure how it could have cost the team.

Two drivers both going for the World Championship, two or three laps remaining. I can't blame Hamilton for trying to put Rosberg under pressure to make a mistake or get overtaken to give himself that minute chance to win it for himself.

This,

The team has one Primary aim every season and that is to win the Constructors, that is where they get prize money from not the Individuals.

They had already won this weeks ago.

By telling Lewis to speed up it was obvious the "Team" had only one goal in mind and that was to allow Rosberg to win the title.

AK74 · Nov 28, 2016

^ I think the concern was also that with Hamilton driving slowly, Vettel's pace would put him in a race-winning position. I know it's academic as Mercedes had already won the Constructors' and were guaranteed the Drivers', but I can see the team's logic.

drew · Nov 28, 2016

Diablo said:
Sadly Hamilton considers himself to be so important..More important in fact than the Team that has got him where he is....His blatant disregard for orders given to him could have cost the team dearly....Not a man I would want in a team at all.

Really? What has Hamilton ever done that has actually cost the team? As Hillian has stated, the result had no bearing on Mercedes financially. The only possibly reason would be the loss of the kudos of winning if Vettel had got past both of them.

Goldstone1976 · Nov 28, 2016

drew said:
Really? What has Hamilton ever done that has actually cost the team? As Hillian has stated, the result had no bearing on Mercedes financially. The only possibly reason would be the loss of the kudos of winning if Vettel had got past both of them.

Since Hamilton failed in his attempt to get Rosberg overtaken, your assertion that no financial loss was suffered by Mercedes F1 is almost certainly correct. However, I think it's equally likely to be true that had he succeeded that Mercedes F1 would have lost sponsorship money. F1 sponsorship deals almost always have payments for race results as well as the overall season results (actually, they also have payments linked to qualifying too typically).

So, Hamilton doing what he did was done with the knowledge that success would cost his employer money. Worse still, from Mercedes pov, he went public (under provocation, for sure) with a statement that effectively said "I don't care how much money you make from this race" (when he said that he didn't care whether he won or lost).

From a purely business perspective, Mercedes have every justification for being pissed about what he was doing. However, F1, like football, isn't purely a business. It was entirely predictable and understandable for Hamilton to do what he did, and consequently, the team shouldn't have sent the instruction (twice) - it was never going to be heeded.

drew · Nov 28, 2016

Goldstone1976 said:
Since Hamilton failed in his attempt to get Rosberg overtaken, your assertion that no financial loss was suffered by Mercedes F1 is almost certainly correct. However, I think it's equally likely to be true that had he succeeded that Mercedes F1 would have lost sponsorship money. F1 sponsorship deals almost always have payments for race results as well as the overall season results (actually, they also have payments linked to qualifying too typically).

So, Hamilton doing what he did was done with the knowledge that success would cost his employer money. Worse still, from Mercedes pov, he went public (under provocation, for sure) with a statement that effectively said "I don't care how much money you make from this race" (when he said that he didn't care whether he won or lost).

From a purely business perspective, Mercedes have every justification for being pissed about what he was doing. However, F1, like football, isn't purely a business. It was entirely predictable and understandable for Hamilton to do what he did, and consequently, the team shouldn't have sent the instruction (twice) - it was never going to be heeded.

You have to weigh up the possible loss of sponsorship money, which I suspect is insignificant for one race or qualifying against the drama of spectators watching a race, including those that are on their backsides watching it unfold on the telly. Would sponsorship also be linked to viewing figures and if so, would you get more viewers watching a race rather than a procession. No drama then lower viewers and lower sponsorship. Unless you can show exactly what the deal with the sponsors is then it is only a guess.

Personally, my gut feeling is that those that are bemoaning Hamilton ignoring team orders are doing so from the point of view they don't already like the guy anyway. Similar to all the crap that was written about Rooney and the wedding.

alfredmizen · Nov 28, 2016

El Presidente said:
Classy Lewis, classy

View attachment 79784

I've got a mate who worked in F1 , Hamilton is not well liked at all due to his habit of treating people like sh1t when the cameras aren't around.

BensGrandad · Nov 28, 2016

alfredmizen said:
I've got a mate who worked in F1 , Hamilton is not well liked at all due to his habit of treating people like sh1t when the cameras aren't around.

That was what I was hinting at yesterday and saying Rosberg is a gentleman in comparison. I have to be careful how I say things or I will incur a ban.

Goldstone1976 · Nov 28, 2016

drew said:
You have to weigh up the possible loss of sponsorship money, which I suspect is insignificant for one race or qualifying against the drama of spectators watching a race, including those that are on their backsides watching it unfold on the telly. Would sponsorship also be linked to viewing figures and if so, would you get more viewers watching a race rather than a procession. No drama then lower viewers and lower sponsorship. Unless you can show exactly what the deal with the sponsors is then it is only a guess.

Personally, my gut feeling is that those that are bemoaning Hamilton ignoring team orders are doing so from the point of view they don't already like the guy anyway. Similar to all the crap that was written about Rooney and the wedding.

I think Hamilton doing what he did was predictable and totally understandable, and, as you infer, led to a much more interesting race. Mercedes was, IMO, wrong and stupid to issue the instructions they did. I suspect (but it's purely speculation) that their primary motivation was to publicly state their official position so they could tell their sponsors that they'd tried in the event that the race didn't finish 1-2 Mercedes rather than in any expectation that Hamilton would actually change his tactics.

Separately, Hamilton, not for the first time this season, or indeed for the first time in his career implied that he'd been stitched up by having deliberate reliability issues (or at least not as much care taken over the prep of his car) in a conscious team strategy of getting Rosberg the title. I don't buy that at all. Two reasons: over the last three seasons both drivers have had 4 DNF due to mechanical issues - what goes around comes around; and Hamilton buggered up 4 (3?) starts this season - entirely his fault.

Hamilton is, again imo, clearly the faster driver of the two, but he's also more erratic, and that slight inconsistency contributed just as much to him just failing to get his fourth title as any mechanical issues.

Icy Gull · Nov 28, 2016

Diablo said:
Sadly Hamilton considers himself to be so important..More important in fact than the Team that has got him where he is....His blatant disregard for orders given to him could have cost the team dearly....Not a man I would want in a team at all.

There was absolutely no reason to give Hamilton instructions other than to give Rosberg an easy run to the title. I am 100% with Hamilton basically telling them to feck off. Disgusting disrespectful instructions from the Fuhrers at Mecedes.

I would love it he returned to McLaren and helped them get back in touch with Mercedes.

Ross Brawn had some interesting things to say about the two faced hierarchy at Mercedes a few weeks ago. Now that is a Formula One boss, along with Christian Horner that gets my respect.

Wolfe and Lauda are not the gents so many think they are.

Icy Gull · Nov 28, 2016

AK74 said:
^ I think the concern was also that with Hamilton driving slowly, Vettel's pace would put him in a race-winning position. I know it's academic as Mercedes had already won the Constructors' and were guaranteed the Drivers', but I can see the team's logic.

Vettel was never going to try and overtake a fellow German, shame it wasn't Verstapen in third, he would definitely have given it a go. Vettel made no meaningful effort whatsoever and even sided with Rosberg talking about Hamilton's "dirty tricks".

BensGrandad · Nov 28, 2016

Any of the top drivers would jump at the chance to drive that car with a chance of winning the drivers title as it is so far in front of the others. Unless Ferrari or somebody can get near to it LH would not think of leaving them unless he was sacked I wouldnt think.

AK74 · Nov 28, 2016

Maybe. Or it could have been down to this:

“At the end I thought of having a go for the victory but the problem was they were too quick on the straights,” said Vettel. “Lewis was giving Nico such a good tow that it was difficult to really create something in the straights.”

(http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/11/27/vettel-hamilton-tow-stopped-passing-rosberg/)

Regardless, I'll declare that I'm glad Rosberg was crowned WC.

Icy Gull · Nov 28, 2016

BensGrandad said:
Any of the top drivers would jump at the chance to drive that car with a chance of winning the drivers title as it is so far in front of the others. Unless Ferrari or somebody can get near to it LH would not think of leaving them unless he was sacked I wouldnt think.

There are quite a few rule changes next year which may well suit the best performing chassis and both McLaren and Red Bull have a chassis that is probably as good as Mercedes. No guaranteed that Honda and Renault won't catch up with the Mercedes engine either.

Icy Gull · Nov 28, 2016

AK74 said:
Maybe. Or it could have been down to this:

“At the end I thought of having a go for the victory but the problem was they were too quick on the straights,” said Vettel. “Lewis was giving Nico such a good tow that it was difficult to really create something in the straights.”

(http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/11/27/vettel-hamilton-tow-stopped-passing-rosberg/)

Regardless, I'll declare that I'm glad Rosberg was crowned WC.

I thought Hamilton was making sure he was NOT in DPF opening area (i.e. one sec) to stop Rosberg being able to catch him in the straights. So not sure how he was getting a tow from Hamilton? That was what was so impressive about Hamilton's drive, he gave Rosberg no chance to get past him. Going very fast in the straights and very slow around the bends. Well that was the way I saw it anyway.

vegster · Nov 28, 2016

BensGrandad said:
He is British but choses not to live here I know it is as a tax exile but that takes the gloss off of it for me. I prefer a true Brit who lives and pays tax here, very rare I know with the wealthy.

Try and find a current F1 driver that does live here....from any country.

BensGrandad · Nov 28, 2016

vegster said:
Try and find a current F1 driver that does live here....from any country.

True but that doesnt stop or change my rating of true British

Geestar · Nov 28, 2016

Diablo said:
Sadly Hamilton considers himself to be so important..More important in fact than the Team that has got him where he is....His blatant disregard for orders given to him could have cost the team dearly....Not a man I would want in a team at all.

You would have given up the title without a fight?

Not someone I would want in my team.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

vegster · Nov 28, 2016

Bry Nylon said:
Hamilton seems to have some sort of complex that prevents him from getting the best out of a team.

He is a multiple world champion but he could have achieved so much more already if he could bring people with him, rather than alienate them. He struggled at McLaren to build a team around him and now at Mercedes history is repeating itself.

The very best drivers - Prost, Senna, Schumacher - dominated their teams and made them their own. You get a sense that Hamilton's arrogance prevents him from doing this. Is the whole side of his garage pulling for him? Not a chance, and that is down to him and him alone.

I happened to catch an interview with Johnny Herbert the other day, being interviewed about his autobiography. In conversation it came up that when Herbert was driving with Schumacher at Bennetton, Schumacher and his engineering team wanted all the data from Herbert and his engineering team on Herbert's car set up at each race and what they were trialling. Herbert said that strangely, Schumacher and his engineering team offered nothing to Herbert or his team in return.

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Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - 2016 Shootout

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