Dyche still after Stephens

Steve Foster · Nov 7, 2016

Blue Valkyrie said:
Tony has gone on record as saying no one will be sold in January, so no deal will be done for him to go, and anyway Burnley will not have been given permission to speak to him and offer that money.

Is the club aware of the illegal approach which you alledge ?

Indeed. My understanding is that a deal will be done in January for Stephens to go at the end of the season, unless the club match the Burnley signing on fee of £4m, which as of last week they hadn't. Stephens is a professional however that sort of money will set him up for a very long time. One can understand if not pallatable. I hope BHA match the Burnley offer ...

Blue Valkyrie · Nov 7, 2016

Steve Foster said:
Indeed. My understanding is that a deal will be done in January for Stephens to go at the end of the season, unless the club match the Burnley signing on fee of £4m, which as of last week they hadn't. Stephens is a professional however that sort of money will set him up for a very long time. One can understand if not pallatable. I hope BHA match the Burnley offer ...

That makes sense as it is about him leaving the summer rather than January.

Do the albion have to decide before anything is signed with Burnley or can they wait until season end when they know which league they are in ?

sussex_guy2k2 · Nov 7, 2016

Clampet said:
If his contract ends in the summer he can talk to other clubs a few months before, and, agree a contract with the one he wants to go to. Not sure but it might be 6 months before. It's taking a chance as an injury could leave him with no club.

Not true. He can speak to foreign clubs, but he can't speak to English clubs until his contract runs out (officially, at least).

Guinness Boy · Nov 7, 2016

Steve Foster said:
Indeed. My understanding is that a deal will be done in January for Stephens to go at the end of the season, unless the club match the Burnley signing on fee of £4m, which as of last week they hadn't. Stephens is a professional however that sort of money will set him up for a very long time. One can understand if not pallatable. I hope BHA match the Burnley offer ...

But that's different to him going IN JANUARY. It's also illegal.

What 8th Battalion doesn't understand is how our chairman, CEO and manager operate. Stephens won't be going anywhere IN JANUARY because he's contracted to us unless a) Burnley offer a stupid amount of transfer fee for a player with 6 months of his contract left, with the majority up front (unlike what they offered in the summer) and b) we've replaced him with like for like or better.

While no one in their right mind would turn down £4 million our position in the table is also crucial. It's not inconceivable at the moment that we could be playing in the Premier League next season and Burnley could be in the Championship. Dale's twitter rant was all about playing at the highest level.

Your info may be that this is a done deal but I'd suggest there are a few twists and turns yet - precisely because I DO understand how football works.

chaileyjem · Nov 7, 2016

Steve Foster said:
Indeed. My understanding is that a deal will be done in January for Stephens to go at the end of the season, unless the club match the Burnley signing on fee of £4m, which as of last week they hadn't. Stephens is a professional however that sort of money will set him up for a very long time. One can understand if not pallatable. I hope BHA match the Burnley offer ...

Odd then that in the Sun report re: moves to Burnley, or agreeing a end of season move in January, it says this.
"The main hurdle to any deal is likely to be Stephens’ agent, who is not convinced a January move [to Burnley] is the most lucrative plan."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...-brighton-playmaker-dale-stephens-in-january/

Obviously The Sun have different sources to you.

Steve Foster · Nov 7, 2016

Guinness Boy said:
But that's different to him going IN JANUARY. It's also illegal.

What 8th Battalion doesn't understand is how our chairman, CEO and manager operate. Stephens won't be going anywhere IN JANUARY because he's contracted to us unless a) Burnley offer a stupid amount of transfer fee for a player with 6 months of his contract left, with the majority up front (unlike what they offered in the summer) and b) we've replaced him with like for like or better.

While no one in their right mind would turn down £4 million our position in the table is also crucial. It's not inconceivable at the moment that we could be playing in the Premier League next season and Burnley could be in the Championship. Dale's twitter rant was all about playing at the highest level.

Your info may be that this is a done deal but I'd suggest there are a few twists and turns yet - precisely because I DO understand how football works.

100% agree - Stephens is not going anywhere in January, but unless the Albion match the £4m 'signing fee' in January, he will be gone at the end of the season, irrespective of what league we will be in & will be signing the Burnley deal in the New Year. Of course he may change his mind (I suspect if Burnley look like going down & us going up ..)
I hope that BHA will match the figure. Still two months for the club to thrash out a comparable arrangement with DS. All fun & games

Blue Valkyrie · Nov 7, 2016

Steve Foster said:
100% agree - Stephens is not going anywhere in January, but unless the Albion match the £4m 'signing fee' in January, he will be gone at the end of the season, irrespective of what league we will be in & will be signing the Burnley deal in the New Year. Of course he may change his mind (I suspect if Burnley look like going down & us going up ..)
I hope that BHA will match the figure. Still two months for the club to thrash out a comparable arrangement with DS. All fun & games

That all seems a bit against the rules though. Surely that isn't allowed unless the albion give Burnley permission to offer a deal ?

trueblue · Nov 7, 2016

Can't see him leaving before the end of the season. He'd be better off hedging his bets if it's really about playing in the PL as he could end up leaving a club about to do that for one that's in the Championship.

I don't see Bloom's head being turned by a fee either. But there is one interesting scenario... what if Burnley offered some money & Barnes? Just a thought.

Captain Sensible · Nov 7, 2016

Blue Valkyrie said:
That all seems a bit against the rules though. Surely that isn't allowed unless the albion give Burnley permission to offer a deal ?

Yes not only is it illegal, but I think if the Albion are in the PL come May, they will offer Stephens a much larger signing on fee than 4m.

dsr-burnley · Nov 7, 2016

When a player is out of contract in summer, he can negotiate with any other club from January. I think he can sign a pre-contract as well, but if someone knows different I'm willing to believe them.

The agent may be right that Stephens would get more money by waiting until he is out of contract; but on the other hand, if he signs a contract in January with a £4m signing bonus then he's guaranteed that money. If he doesn't sign and gets a career ending injury (God forbid, but it does happen) then he gets nothing. Danny Ings risked that, and made megabucks, but if his knee injuries had come a bit sooner, he'd have got nothing.

Chances are Dyche is still interested. The Lansbury saga from Forest went on for a lot longer than the Stephens one. Dyche has a very limited number of targets so he keeps on pursuing them. Whether Burnley have tapped up Stephens isn't known, but wouldn't be a surprise; but if the Sun story has an actual source, as opposed to being entirely imagined, that source will be the agent. It's almost always in the agent's interest to make these stories public to generate a bidding war; it would be in Burnley's interest to keep it quiet for the same reason.

Mackenzie · Nov 7, 2016

dsr-burnley said:
When a player is out of contract in summer, he can negotiate with any other club from January. I think he can sign a pre-contract as well, but if someone knows different I'm willing to believe them.

The agent may be right that Stephens would get more money by waiting until he is out of contract; but on the other hand, if he signs a contract in January with a £4m signing bonus then he's guaranteed that money. If he doesn't sign and gets a career ending injury (God forbid, but it does happen) then he gets nothing. Danny Ings risked that, and made megabucks, but if his knee injuries had come a bit sooner, he'd have got nothing.

Chances are Dyche is still interested. The Lansbury saga from Forest went on for a lot longer than the Stephens one. Dyche has a very limited number of targets so he keeps on pursuing them. Whether Burnley have tapped up Stephens isn't known, but wouldn't be a surprise; but if the Sun story has an actual source, as opposed to being entirely imagined, that source will be the agent. It's almost always in the agent's interest to make these stories public to generate a bidding war; it would be in Burnley's interest to keep it quiet for the same reason.

I'm hoping we'll keep him until the end of the season and at least give ourselves a chance of promotion. My hunch is that he'll be gone regardless of which division we find ourselves next year though.

sydney · Nov 7, 2016

Clampet said:
If his contract ends in the summer he can talk to other clubs a few months before, and, agree a contract with the one he wants to go to. Not sure but it might be 6 months before. It's taking a chance as an injury could leave him with no club.

burnley could be down and we could be up .......my budgie might crow a massive cock and **** me to death in my sleep.

dazzer6666 · Nov 7, 2016

dsr-burnley said:
When a player is out of contract in summer, he can negotiate with any other club from January. I think he can sign a pre-contract as well, but if someone knows different I'm willing to believe them.

The agent may be right that Stephens would get more money by waiting until he is out of contract; but on the other hand, if he signs a contract in January with a £4m signing bonus then he's guaranteed that money. If he doesn't sign and gets a career ending injury (God forbid, but it does happen) then he gets nothing. Danny Ings risked that, and made megabucks, but if his knee injuries had come a bit sooner, he'd have got nothing.

Chances are Dyche is still interested. The Lansbury saga from Forest went on for a lot longer than the Stephens one. Dyche has a very limited number of targets so he keeps on pursuing them. Whether Burnley have tapped up Stephens isn't known, but wouldn't be a surprise; but if the Sun story has an actual source, as opposed to being entirely imagined, that source will be the agent. It's almost always in the agent's interest to make these stories public to generate a bidding war; it would be in Burnley's interest to keep it quiet for the same reason.

Think you're correct. I don't think we can stop DS signing a pre-contract agreement that takes effect at the end of the season, but we can certainly stop him going anywhere until then. Sure he is still on Dyche's wish-list (along with others). I guess we might offer DS something too, conditional on promotion. Also agree the Sun piece is likely to be 'agent placement' to get the bidding going.

BensGrandad · Nov 7, 2016

If that is true about the £4m signing oin fee I would expect the club to give him it as it would cost that plus to replace him and they know that. They will have already lost the £6m fee so it is big bucks to spend or lose.

Captain Sensible · Nov 7, 2016

BensGrandad said:
If that is true about the £4m signing oin fee I would expect the club to give him it as it would cost that plus to replace him and they know that. They will have already lost the £6m fee so it is big bucks to spend or lose.

Yes, exactly that. There cannot be any pre agreement or contract from any other club until after 6 months remaining. Stephens would IMO be mad to agree a pre contract with a club that could well go down, and with the Albion looking good to go up then hopefully. The cost of replacing Stephens will go way beyond 6million, I think the Albion will offer a good contract if we are still in this position come January. Pre contracts are rare and Stephens would have only 3-4 months of football to get through to land a very lucrative signing on fee, most likely with us if we go up.

Guinness Boy · Nov 7, 2016

sydney said:
burnley could be down and we could be up .......my budgie might crow a massive cock and **** me to death in my sleep.

I genuinely worry about your imagination sometimes but you don't half make me laugh

Guinness Boy · Nov 7, 2016

dsr-burnley said:
When a player is out of contract in summer, he can negotiate with any other club from January. I think he can sign a pre-contract as well, but if someone knows different I'm willing to believe them.

The agent may be right that Stephens would get more money by waiting until he is out of contract; but on the other hand, if he signs a contract in January with a £4m signing bonus then he's guaranteed that money. If he doesn't sign and gets a career ending injury (God forbid, but it does happen) then he gets nothing. Danny Ings risked that, and made megabucks, but if his knee injuries had come a bit sooner, he'd have got nothing.

Chances are Dyche is still interested. The Lansbury saga from Forest went on for a lot longer than the Stephens one. Dyche has a very limited number of targets so he keeps on pursuing them. Whether Burnley have tapped up Stephens isn't known, but wouldn't be a surprise; but if the Sun story has an actual source, as opposed to being entirely imagined, that source will be the agent. It's almost always in the agent's interest to make these stories public to generate a bidding war; it would be in Burnley's interest to keep it quiet for the same reason.

dazzer6666 said:
Think you're correct. I don't think we can stop DS signing a pre-contract agreement that takes effect at the end of the season, but we can certainly stop him going anywhere until then. Sure he is still on Dyche's wish-list (along with others). I guess we might offer DS something too, conditional on promotion. Also agree the Sun piece is likely to be 'agent placement' to get the bidding going.

The point is if Dale and / or his agent (and if his agent knows, he will) know the size of a signing on fee now that cannot be agreed until January and cannot be acted upon until June that's tapping up. The earliest he should know about the offer size is just before he signs the pre-contract agreement.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that it doesn't happen. I don't think anything's actually happened to Norwich over Pritchard and the Argus questioned the legality of that deal. But it's sydney and BG being sensible here. Anything could happen between now and the end of May.

beefypigeon · Nov 7, 2016

Honestly I don't know what to make of Stephens.

He's a good player, no doubt. He contributes to the team and is a reassuring presence in the middle of the pitch.

But it's very rare in my opinion, that he stands out as having a really good game. He strikes me as the weaker link in almost any central midfield partnership he's a part of. Alongside Kayal, Kayal for me was our standout player last year. This season, Sidwell has been our best central midfielder.

Personally, I wouldn't sell him purely on the basis that it would disrupt the squad and it is pivotal that we stay #together. But purely on an 'ability' basis, I think £6m for him is fairly good business.

Bozza · Nov 7, 2016

beefypigeon said:
Honestly I don't know what to make of Stephens.

He's a good player, no doubt. He contributes to the team and is a reassuring presence in the middle of the pitch.

But it's very rare in my opinion, that he stands out as having a really good game. He strikes me as the weaker link in almost any central midfield partnership he's a part of. Alongside Kayal, Kayal for me was our standout player last year. This season, Sidwell has been our best central midfielder.

Personally, I wouldn't sell him purely on the basis that it would disrupt the squad and it is pivotal that we stay #together. But purely on an 'ability' basis, I think £6m for him is fairly good business.

I've written about this before but there's a curious disparity in the perception of Stephens and Kayal that generally goes like this...

Albion fans: Kayal > Stephens
The wider football world: Stephens > Kayal

Da Man Clay · Nov 7, 2016

HTML:

Captain Sensible said:
Yes, exactly that. There cannot be any pre agreement or contract from any other club until after 6 months remaining. Stephens would IMO be mad to agree a pre contract with a club that could well go down, and with the Albion looking good to go up then hopefully. The cost of replacing Stephens will go way beyond 6million, I think the Albion will offer a good contract if we are still in this position come January. Pre contracts are rare and Stephens would have only 3-4 months of football to get through to land a very lucrative signing on fee, most likely with us if we go up.

I think the rules have changed in relation to pre-contracts and now a club in the same country cannot agree a pre-contract any sooner than 6 weeks before the end of contract.

There is no real value in DS signing a pre-contract with anyone though until he knows which division they are in.

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