[Politics] Brexit

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 15, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
We had a referendum and people such as yourself did not accept the result. Therefore I voted Tory....

And what result was that? To leave, but how? Norway style? Canada style? No Deal? May’s deal? If only there had been mandate for any of the versions of Leave maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Also worth mentioning that Johnson voted against May’s deal... twice. So he’s not exactly free of blame for ‘frustrating’ the process.

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2019

beorhthelm said:
so no change to present.

Well a load more civil servants to ensure that we can maintain all our own rules and regulations and copy everything the EU does, where needed, so that will help the employment figures :wink:

I'm guessing those extra costs will easily be covered by the 'Brexit Bonus'

Neville's Breakfast · Dec 15, 2019

GrizzlingGammon said:
I accepted the result, but was the against the extreme form of Brexit that was trying to be forced through; a brexit that wasn't campaigned for by the leave campaign. Own your vote and accept that you made Johnson PM

Yes I did....as the only political leader that will deliver Brexit.
I am comfortable with that. I only pointed out that Remainers and Labour Party members were culpable because you all seem to be uncomfortable. If you want a different outcome next time you will need to change your approach.

beorhthelm · Dec 15, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Well a load more civil servants to ensure that we can maintain all our own rules and regulations and copy everything the EU does, where needed, so that will help the employment figures

same point, no change. one of the reasons i changed my view, its not really going to change much to be worth it.

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
And what result was that? To leave, but how? Norway style? Canada style? No Deal? May’s deal? If only there had been mandate for any of the versions of Leave maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Also worth mentioning that Johnson voted against May’s deal... twice. So he’s not exactly free of blame for ‘frustrating’ the process.

But give Johnson a chance. Now he's in with a huge majority, we will be out by Jan 2020 and have a trade deal with the EU by end of December 2020.

'Get Brexit Done'

There can't be any excuses for not delivering now, surely

I mean it would make the whole campaign look rather less than honest, and a lot of people very naive, if we were still paying our EU fees and being governed by their rules and regulations beyond the end of 2020 wouldn't it ?

Maybe we should prepare a ditch, just in case :lolol:

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 15, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
But give Johnson a chance. Now he's in with a huge majority, we will be out by Jan 2020 and have a trade deal with the EU by end of December 2020.

Get Brexit Done

There can't be any excuses for not delivering now, surely

Will he though?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-boris-johnson-deal-general-election-eu-barnier-leak-deadline-a9242346.html%3famp

I’m ready to hear how, by not leaving by the end of 2020, it’s still all Labour’s fault.

Neville's Breakfast · Dec 15, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
And what result was that? To leave, but how? Norway style? Canada style? No Deal? May’s deal? If only there had been mandate for any of the versions of Leave maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Also worth mentioning that Johnson voted against May’s deal... twice. So he’s not exactly free of blame for ‘frustrating’ the process.

To leave, that’s it. If leaving evolves over the next few decades I have no problem with that. It will be ratified at general elections. That’s how our history within the EU occurred. The idea that it all has to be decided immediately and that there is no particular mandate for any one outcome is simply a stalling tactic much repeated by Remainer politicians as an excuse to ignore the referendum vote.
Boris Johnson voted against the deal because he thought we could get a better one. To confuse this with Remainer MPs who wanted to thwart leaving is disingenuous.

Lincoln Imp · Dec 15, 2019

GT49er said:
"Just another little jeer leader sitting at his keyboard, keeping warm, doing nothing, poking fun...................................."

Substitute bile, spite and abuse for 'fun' and you have an accurate description of many remainers, including, sadly, quite a few fellow NSCers on this very thread. It did them little credit. Respect though to the many remainers who accepted the result of the referendum - reluctantly obviously, but with good grace and without the need to vent their spleen in a most unpleasant way.

Unicorns, anyone?

There's a fine line between debate and bile. Two of my closest friends, both retired, have very different beliefs and backgrounds but are both firm Brexiteers. Two or three times a month we have terrific verbal tussles but never indulge in bitterness and name-calling. It's wonderfully enjoyable. For some reason we always have cake and coffee afterwards. It is hard to replicate that spirit on here, when you can't see the other man's eyes, but it's worth trying.

The post of mine you quote from was a reaction to one from JCFG. Quite out of the blue, with victory in his pocket and the past receding, he decided to have a jeer at those who had tried and failed to get a second referendum. It was apropos of nothing at all. He just wanted to rake up old hostilities and have a crow. He had previously said that he had never actually troubled to campaign for Brexit, he just liked coming on here and winding people up.

I responded, but not with the bile both you and me deplore. I simply said what I had done and why I thought a peaceful protest was better than doing nothing. This led to an extraordinary, misrepresenting outburst from Pastafarian which closed with him demanding I return to my swamp.

It is not unpleasant being attacked by the likes of the JCPasta axis but after a lifetime of following the Albion I am sometimes astonished by the nature of some of the people who stand on these terraces.

Have a nice day. I'm off to buy a Christmas tree now.

vegster · Dec 15, 2019

beorhthelm said:
so no change to present, except for all those not trading with UK.

Except that we will have to prove that we are conforming with additional paperwork and checks. Think along the lines of Northern Ireland's position now that Johnson has thrown them under the bus.

GrizzlingGammon · Dec 15, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
With lots of Brussels sprouts no doubt ....

Of course. I am supporting the Great British farmers by buying their produce. Not turning my back on them like your patriotic self.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 15, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
To leave, that’s it. If leaving evolves over the next few decades I have no problem with that. It will be ratified at general elections. That’s how our history within the EU occurred. The idea that it all has to be decided immediately and that there is no particular mandate for any one outcome is simply a stalling tactic much repeated by Remainer politicians as an excuse to ignore the referendum vote.
Boris Johnson voted against the deal because he thought we could get a better one. To confuse this with Remainer MPs who wanted to thwart leaving is disingenuous.

Pointing out there isn’t a mandate to any version of leave isn’t a tactic at all. It’s simply the truth :shrug:

I’m well aware that our relationship with the EU is likely to evolve over decades but it doesn’t stop the initial deal that we’d leave with and the ramifications of said deal, or no deal and people are well within their right to challenge a deal, or no deal, that could possibly damage the country. Of course, no Brexit deal will ever be as good as the deal we currently have though...

I see. So it’s ok for Johnson to stifle the process because he thought he could get a better deal, but when Labour and Corbyn tried to do it they were interfering with the democratic process? Sounds legit.

beorhthelm · Dec 15, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
Will he though?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-boris-johnson-deal-general-election-eu-barnier-leak-deadline-a9242346.html%3famp

I’m ready to hear how, by not leaving by the end of 2020, it’s still all Labour’s fault.

leaving occurs when they ratify the Withdrawal Agreement, not when the future trade agreement is concluded. which is what Barnier is refering to.

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
To leave, that’s it. If leaving evolves over the next few decades I have no problem with that. It will be ratified at general elections. That’s how our history within the EU occurred. The idea that it all has to be decided immediately and that there is no particular mandate for any one outcome is simply a stalling tactic much repeated by Remainer politicians as an excuse to ignore the referendum vote.
Boris Johnson voted against the deal because he thought we could get a better one. To confuse this with Remainer MPs who wanted to thwart leaving is disingenuous.

Oh so that's what 'Get Brexit Done' means, I did wonder :lolol:

pastafarian · Dec 15, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Unfortunately, on your second point. I think that if you believe that Johnson is going to get Brexit 'finished' in anything under 10 years, you are going to be sadly disappointed.

Nah, Boris will Get Brexit Done by Jan 31st as promised and the Withdrawal aspect that the voters want done and dusted, that has caused so many issues, will get through Parliament and be implemented. We can then move in to the After Brexit and the transition period, which even if subject to a period of extension will not be extended for up to 10 years.

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2019

beorhthelm said:
leaving occurs when they ratify the Withdrawal Agreement, not when the future trade agreement is concluded. which is what Barnier is refering to.

It will indeed, but we will still be paying our full EU contributions and be bound by their rules and regulations. I wonder when that may stop ?

GrizzlingGammon · Dec 15, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
Remainers are the reason we have Boris Johnson as our PM.

Neville's Breakfast said:
Yes I did....as the only political leader that will deliver Brexit.
I am comfortable with that. I only pointed out that Remainers and Labour Party members were culpable because you all seem to be uncomfortable. If you want a different outcome next time you will need to change your approach.

So you now admit remainers did not make Johnson PM?
I agree that the Labour Party was absolute tosh. But stop blaming others for your vote.

ManOfSussex · Dec 15, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
But give Johnson a chance. Now he's in with a huge majority, we will be out by Jan 2020 and have a trade deal with the EU by end of December 2020.

'Get Brexit Done'

There can't be any excuses for not delivering now, surely

I mean it would make the whole campaign look rather less than honest, and a lot of people very naive, if we were still paying our EU fees and being governed by their rules and regulations beyond the end of 2020 wouldn't it ?

Maybe we should prepare a ditch, just in case

'Always the victim, never their fault' has worked perfectly well for 3 and a half years, so there's no need to change tack for the 2020's either.

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2019

pastafarian said:
Nah, Boris will Get Brexit Done by Jan 31st as promised and the Withdrawal aspect that the voters want done and dusted, that has caused so many issues, will get through Parliament and be implemented. We can then move in to the After Brexit and the transition period, which even if subject to a period of extension will not be extended for up to 10 years.

Just like Article 50 wasn't going to keep getting extended :lolol:

But surely Johnson won't want to extend the transition period and negotiate a new divorce bill. How is that 'Getting Brexit done' ?

Maybe he can threaten 'no deal' to get what he wants.

I get the strangest feeling of 'déjà vu' :facepalm:

beorhthelm · Dec 15, 2019

vegster said:
Except that we will have to prove that we are conforming with additional paperwork and checks. Think along the lines of Northern Ireland's position now that Johnson has thrown them under the bus.

this is what companies already do, its not done on trust.

midnight_rendezvous · Dec 15, 2019

beorhthelm said:
leaving occurs when they ratify the Withdrawal Agreement, not when the future trade agreement is concluded. which is what Barnier is refering to.

Yet the transition period tethers the UK to the EU rules and regulations, as well as holds us to our financial obligations, no? Many Brexiteers won’t be happy with that if the transition period needs extending.

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