[Politics] Brexit

The Clamp · Oct 23, 2019

Blue3 said:
The Tories have lost their teeth but could still give a nasty suck

Ha! Oh it’s all to play for. No one side has a clear lead. But we can say for sure, remain is in the strongest position for quite some time.

You can sense it in the air. Leavers on here are getting more didgy than ever. And they’re a tetchy lot at the best of times.

Murray 17 · Oct 23, 2019

Notters said:
It's not just about people changing their minds is it, it's about people dying and being replaced with new young people. I assume he's not suggesting that none of the people who've reached the age of 18 over the last three years would vote?

This view ignores the fact that those people in the middle will be 3 years older, and it is generally considered that as people get older, they become more conservative.

If the 'young replacing the old' theory was true, Labour would steadily increase their vote share every year.

Also bear in mind people are living longer, and not all young people support Remain.

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Hastings gull · Oct 23, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
I've known many teachers all my life too, with my Dad being a retired one and my brother being one for over 20 years too, who dares to offer a differing opinion to another gammon one of yours, of which I'm not interested in again.

Yet again, rather like the other day when you talked of the Buchanan and your expertise on Hastings, you are jumping to conclusions. By the way, my mother-in-law was a nurse at the Buchanan for many years, telling stories of how captured German POWs would sing Stille Nacht, long before you were born, when I first knew of the hospital! Anyway, your brother's opinion is not necessarily different to mine ( I voted remain -silly boy!) just that you say that he must be right, as all those kids agree with you and that he must know best as he knows so many teachers, when in reality given the sheer number, he actually knows very few! I appreciate that you are not interested in what I have to say; that does not come as a surprise, as that is the hallmark of a very arrogant poster, so convinced of his own superiority.

lawros left foot · Oct 23, 2019

Mouldy Boots said:
Of course, it will, I wanted a hard Brexit, and I know many else that would do the same, so we have moved a long way, how far have you moved

On negotiations, you meet in the middle, and that is what you do if you're at a stalemate.

The problem is there are too many remoaners that are still looking after their own in the house of commons,
Those MPs are a disgrace to the human race, and making Britain look like a bunch of COCK Wombles.

Are you a COCK womble too

I’m a cock womble.

The way I see it, as a hard line Brexiteer, you have a myriad of deals that will achieve your stated intention of leaving the EU. You may not like them all, and they aren’t all realistic, but, they do all mean we leave the EU in some form or other.
For you to take Johnson’s new deal, when, ideally you would like a WTO deal, isn’t too much of a compromise.

For a remainer, who considers the whole Brexit thing to be madness, as I do, I don’t have any compromise available, none means we wouldn’t leave the EU, the only possibility for myself and my compatriots is a people’s vote, and the hope that the electorate actually turn out this time, and remain runs a campaign that isn’t as arrogant and incompetent as the last one.
But, we could still end up leaving.

It really not a compromise, meeting half way, because halfway means we leave, it all returns to a very bad referendum question, posed to save the Tory party from UKIP.

ManOfSussex · Oct 23, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Yet again, rather like the other day when you talked of the Buchanan and your expertise on Hastings, you are jumping to conclusions. By the way, my mother-in-law was a nurse at the Buchanan for many years, telling stories of how captured German POWs would sing Stille Nacht, long before you were born, when I first knew of the hospital! Anyway, your brother's opinion is not necessarily different to mine ( I voted remain -silly boy!) just that you say that he must be right, as all those kids agree with you and that he must know best as he knows so many teachers, when in reality given the sheer number, he actually knows very few! I appreciate that you are not interested in what I have to say; that does not come as a surprise, as that is the hallmark of a very arrogant poster, so convinced of his own superiority.

Good for your Mother-in-Law.

I'm afraid I did not say he was right, I offered and stated it was his opinion and clearly stated it was his opinion. The bit at the end of the post you jumped one where I said:

ManOfSussex said:
That's only his opinion though.

- that might be rather clearly indicative as to it being his personal opinion. Obviously not to you though, so frankly it's not exactly difficult to be superior to you when you can't even read, remember and understand the posts that you're actually replying to.

ManOfSussex · Oct 23, 2019

Murray 17 said:
This view ignores the fact that those people in the middle will be 3 years older, and it is generally considered that as people get older, they become more conservative.

If the 'young replacing the old' theory was true, Labour would steadily increase their vote share every year.

Also bear in mind people are living longer, and not all young people support Remain.

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Not as simple as that - https://www.conservativehome.com/pl...rse-for-the-conservatives-than-you-think.html

Blue3 · Oct 23, 2019

The Clamp said:
Ha! Oh it’s all to play for. No one side has a clear lead. But we can say for sure, remain is in the strongest position for quite some time.

You can sense it in the air. Leavers on here are getting more didgy than ever. And they’re a tetchy lot at the best of times.

I agree it is very much all to play for but the Tories really are the most untrustworthy bunch of self serving scum and they are twisting and turning every which way they can

lawros left foot · Oct 23, 2019

It appears even Sajid Javid is a fan of the single market, and he likes seamless travel within Europe.

https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/saj...ng-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 23, 2019

lawros left foot said:
It appears even Sajid Javid is a fan of the single market, and he likes seamless travel within Europe.

https://www.sajidjavid.com/news/saj...ng-eu-guarantees-lost-decade-british-business

Unsurprising. Afterall, the single market, and seamless travel is great.

lawros left foot · Oct 23, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
Unsurprising. Afterall, the single market, and seamless travel is great.

So, why the **** are we leaving??
It’s alright, don’t answer, I’ve heard Farage explain it before.

Seaber · Oct 23, 2019

Johnson has bailed on the Liason Committee at the last moment for the third time already as PM. I don't know why I'm still surprised by how much he seems to loathe procedure, but he's still doing it.

Also, DUP with vote WITH Government on Queen's Speech, so it may get through after all.

Pretty pink fairy · Oct 23, 2019

lawros left foot said:
So, why the **** are we leaving??
It’s alright, don’t answer, I’ve heard Farage explain it before.

Because that was the referendum result :dunce:

regards
DF

Bodian · Oct 23, 2019

clapham_gull said:
He's wrong though and Andrew Bridgen isn't the smartest of Tory MPs. He was the one who was convinced anyone living in England could simply apply for an Irish passport.

Just look at their votes in the indicative votes. They have been very consistent post referendum, they are soft Brexiteers.

I think he's right. They voted to start the process of discussing the bill, with the view to amending it to be a softer Brexit.

clapham_gull · Oct 23, 2019

Bodian said:
I think he's right. They voted to start the process of discussing the bill, with the view to amending it to be a softer Brexit.

No what he said was they did it so they could look their constituents in the face. All they are doing is trying to find a consensus, rightly or wrongly and are getting some very very nasty abuse from all sides.

The ERG really are a very nasty bunch.

Bodian · Oct 23, 2019

clapham_gull said:
No what he said was they did it so they could look their constituents in the face. All they are doing is trying to find a consensus, rightly or wrongly and are getting some very very nasty abuse from all sides.

The ERG really are a very nasty bunch.

Ah - sorry, misunderstood.

Louis MacNeice · Oct 23, 2019

Mouldy Boots said:
Of course, it will, I wanted a hard Brexit, and I know many else that would do the same, so we have moved a long way, how far have you moved

On negotiations, you meet in the middle, and that is what you do if you're at a stalemate.

The problem is there are too many remoaners that are still looking after their own in the house of commons,
Those MPs are a disgrace to the human race, and making Britain look like a bunch of COCK Wombles.

Are you a COCK womble too

How does the deal bring Britain back together when it simultaneously puts a border down the Irish Sea and provides one remain voting UK country (Northern Ireland) with effective EU customs union membership, while denying the other remain voting EU country (Scotland) no such provision?

All you have said is that you like the current deal and so do some other people you know...oh and a bit of sweary shouting.

I voted leave but not in order to jump from the anti-working class Bundesbank controlled EU frying pan into a 'Singapore of the West' stylee deregulated fire. I know a number of people who voted the same way for the same reason. I too have moved.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 23, 2019

Seaber said:
Johnson has bailed on the Liason Committee at the last moment for the third time already as PM. I don't know why I'm still surprised by how much he seems to loathe procedure, but he's still doing it.

Also, DUP with vote WITH Government on Queen's Speech, so it may get through after all.

Which of course makes labour backing the deal that’s based on trusting him the most retarded thing in the Brexit process so far.

ManOfSussex · Oct 23, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
I expect the esteemed Sir John had factored in that variable, likelihood to vote etc. It's all a remainer fantasy anyway, there is no realistic path to a second referendum.

There is, but it'll probably be unfortunately after we've left.

The big divide in Brexit isn't young v old or north v south etc - it's academic attainment and everything that brings. Not necessarily wealth, intelligence and success, but life experiences, outlook, attitude, career prospects, opportunities and views on diversity etc it brings. It's certainly not universal, but it is broadly backed up - The places that voted remain in England and the people from them. 70% of benefit claimants voting leave. Nationalist community more likely to vote leave than someone from the Unionist side in Northern Ireland. A 24 year old graduate voting remain v a 74 year old non graduate who voted leave - it's all there. (Most 75 year old's voted leave, but my Dad passed his 11+ and unlike most back then, he went on all the way and.....you guessed it, he voted remain.)

As societal demographics shift and change and a young, informed, politically enthused, better and further educated generation, who will not have the opportunities of their parents - from everything from work prospects, job security, getting on the housing ladder than their predecessors - continue to move onward into their 20's, that leave majority ebbs away and call to rejoin gets louder.

Aside from economic and societal issues, the cause for rejoining will be helped by the fact Brexit is a regressive, nostalgic act, promulgated by the Tories who are a bunch of saddos - In the 21st century, with social media and a new enthused younger generation, policies, parties and politicians who are saddos, will be at a distinct disadvantage. Celebrity endorsement in the 21st century in the digital age will be crucial and when that referendum comes, leave or whatever it's called, will need better, persuasive individuals than the saddos they had in 2016. A will the rejoin side.

Enjoy it if and when it happens (there's been so many date changes it's difficult to keep up) and whenever it does I'm sure it'll be exactly what you think voted for all those years back. :thumbsup:

The Clamp · Oct 23, 2019

I think we will end up with a soft as silk Brexit. Retaining free movement and a single market etc. This fulfils the criteria of the 2016 advisory referendum and at least holds the U.K. together.

This is what will happen I think.

I also predict we will be back in the EU within 2 years.

Lincoln Imp · Oct 23, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
I think most people would have voted to stay in the EU if we had ended freedom of movement. As that in itself isn't possible, then a version of Brexit where we stay in Customs Union but can control immigration is fine. Heck I might have voted Leave if that was on the table.

I can promise you that 'striking new trade agreements' was not high on the list of reasons the 52% voted for Brexit. It has always been high on the list of those who have been banging on about the EU for the last 30 years, but that is only a small proportion of the 52%.

In connection with this I recall Demonic Cummings reporting a huge row he had with senior Tory Brexiters in the spring of 2016. They wanted to make Global Britain the campaign theme. He said that this was crazy, supporting your point above.

However, rather than immigration he preferred to go with the rather nebulous 'take back control' theme. This reached its zenith in the £350m bus claim, which was more about Getting our Country Back than the NHS. The claim was untrue in itself of course but according to Cummings it won the referendum.

Vote Leave seemed to prefer to leave most unsavoury immigration messaging to Farage and the Bad Boys of Brexit

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