[Politics] Brexit

beorhthelm · Oct 16, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Indeed, I find Corbyn's 'arms crossed, I'm voting it down whatever' stance quite amazing.

Corbyn is a tour de force of fence sitting, including going against several conference policies. on Brexit he seems to take a line of defeating the government to force an election. again.

i expect many Labour MPs would rebel or abstain, because voting down a deal, assuming delay risking no deal while, works against both remainer or leaver constituents.

Baldseagull · Oct 16, 2019

portslade seagull said:
Why should we let known criminals settle in the uk. Do you have good argument for a rapist, murderer, peodophile from another country to have free rein to settle here

We shouldn't and we don't have to, but we do need to know who they are to stop them. This information could be better, but has improved and should improve further over time if we remain in. No guarantee that information will be exchanged if we leave, particularly with no deal.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 16, 2019

Publius Ovidius said:
Seems like that no one knows what this “ deal” will be apart from some press reports that certain members of the ERG going apoplectic when told about the direction it is going. With Corbin basically going to vote against anything that is agreed, then it looks more likely now that we will leave in one Big Bang with no deal, and Boris will challenge the benn law by signing off a no deal blaming the EU and Corbin.

If that is true, I think that the Torres will go into the election with a “we are the only party that will deliver the will of the people “ ticket and I think they will get back in with a landslide as so many people are so dissolutioned with the process now they will vote for whoever gets us over what ever the line is.

I do think you are underestimating the role of the Brexit Party if we extend.

Whilst I don’t think they would get more than a handful of seats at best, they certainly could split the vote allowing a labour/lib dem win.

WATFORD zero · Oct 16, 2019

beorhthelm said:
Corbyn is a tour de force of fence sitting, including going against several conference policies. on Brexit he seems to take a line of defeating the government to force an election. again.

i expect many Labour MPs would rebel or abstain, because voting down a deal, assuming delay risking no deal while, works against both remainer or leaver constituents.

Sorry, run that past me again ?

How voting down a deal works against Remainer constituents who don't want a deal

*edit*

I've just seen that is based on your assumption that voting down a deal means 'No deal'. In which case, I'll assume voting down a deal means 'No Brexit' :wink:

beorhthelm · Oct 16, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Sorry, run that past me again ?

How voting down a deal works against Remainer constituents who don't want a deal

if it risks no deal.

WATFORD zero · Oct 16, 2019

beorhthelm said:
if it risks no deal.

Either I'm too late on the edit, or you're too quick on the quote (caused by me being too quick on the quote in the first place) :smile:

Simster · Oct 16, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Considering the thousands of posts about how the world was going to end if that dastardly Boris and the mythical disaster capitalist backers engineered a no-deal I would have expected more relief and positivity from the gloomerati if, as looks increasingly likely, a deal can be agreed and we avoid that outcome ..... but no, same old same old.

I'm calling it now - there will be no deal. The only reason they're bothering working through the night now is that neither side wants to look like it is responsible for no deal when 31st October comes and goes. Already the cracks are appearing as the ERG lunatics see that they are not going to have a deal that looks anything like the one they unilaterally decided was the one the country voted for.

If we want a deal (and that includes some of us remainers, by the way), it has to start from the point where we stay inside a customs union. It's that simple.

nicko31 · Oct 16, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Indeed, I find Corbyn's 'arms crossed, I'm voting it down whatever' stance quite amazing.

Just doesn't want a Brexit that creates a hit similar to global financial crisis (gov's own figures) and doesn't want to fracture the UK

Not asking for much...

Baldseagull · Oct 16, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Considering the thousands of posts about how the world was going to end if that dastardly Boris and the mythical disaster capitalist backers engineered a no-deal I would have expected more relief and positivity from the gloomerati if, as looks increasingly likely, a deal can be agreed and we avoid that outcome ..... but no, same old same old.

Without accepting the premise of people backing Boris and betting on the pound, if they had backed the pound to fall, a series of unpromising announcements, hints that he would do whatever it takes, suggestions that he might actually want the pound to tank, it moves that way. Then they back a rise, Boris tells Leo what he wants to hear, positive noises start being made and up it comes. Ideally I would guess these people, that may or may not exist, would want to successfully ride the rollercoaster and back every rise and fall along the way. If the final position is a no deal exit, it would just be the biggest fall, of the ride. There would possibly be a rise that would come when we quit no deal and beg for the withdrawal arrangements to kick in and sign up to whatever backstop arrangements they want, but Boris may not be in control of that, so maybe they would not get the info before hand.
Not saying that there is or is not any conspiracy going on, just that what is happening is not evidence that there is not a conspiracy.

beorhthelm · Oct 16, 2019

Simster said:
If we want a deal (and that includes some of us remainers, by the way), it has to start from the point where we stay inside a customs union. It's that simple.

unless i miss something (likely) the withdrawal agreement leaves us in the customs union for now, while the future relation is negotiated. no deal results in no customs union from next month.

Simster · Oct 16, 2019

beorhthelm said:
unless i miss something (likely) the withdrawal agreement leaves us in the customs union for now, while the future relation is negotiated. no deal results in no customs union from next month.

I thought that only applied to NI but could be wrong.

If you are right, I'd reluctantly take the WA at this point in the interests of national unity. I'd then campaign to get us back in on the grounds that the WA was blatantly shithouse as it offers barely anything in the way of new benefits but strips us of all manner of advantages.

Berty23 · Oct 16, 2019

I see that an MP who has voted for the withdrawal agreement three times is getting death threats from people who accuse her of blocking brexit. Bizarre.

Baldseagull · Oct 16, 2019

pastafarian said:
This is up there as one of the stupidest posts on this thread.
If there is no English culture there is obviously no American culture or Japanese culture or French, Spanish, Scottish, Welsh, Argentinian, Irish, Pakistani or Australian culture. You wouldn’t be so stupid as to suggest all other countries have cultures yet single out England as having none and being the only country with a non existent culture.
In which case, if there are no cultures what is the point of Multiculturalism?
Is it just England that has a non existent culture or is it every country?

Charming as ever in your discourse Pastafarian.
I think TB's post was questioning the "Englishness" of English culture.

Baldseagull · Oct 16, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
If it is as reported (and there seems a lot of confidence across parliament, the press and everywhere else that it is) it was actually a very early plan that was strangely dismissed by people who have changed their minds and now want it.

How very undemocratic

Border in the Irish sea was EU suggested version of Backstop, TM got them to agree to whole of UK as the DUP were not happy.

BBassic · Oct 16, 2019

Baldseagull said:
Charming as ever in your discourse Pastafarian.
I think TB's post was questioning the "Englishness" of English culture.

I've often wondered about our culture. When I think of it I think of stereotypical things like tea drinking and the respect for the queuing system.

I'm not saying there isn't an English culture, I just don't know what it is.

nicko31 · Oct 16, 2019

Simster said:
I'm calling it now - there will be no deal. The only reason they're bothering working through the night now is that neither side wants to look like it is responsible for no deal when 31st October comes and goes. Already the cracks are appearing as the ERG lunatics see that they are not going to have a deal that looks anything like the one they unilaterally decided was the one the country voted for.

If we want a deal (and that includes some of us remainers, by the way), it has to start from the point where we stay inside a customs union. It's that simple.

The customs union thing has been became obvious the minute TM set her red lines. it was either that or a massive fudge to keep us in the CU

I notice that Jo Swinson pretty much said this morning she would back Boris's deal with a confirmatory vote, Labour need to move to this place.

This is what we need to bring this whole sorry saga to a close.

nicko31 · Oct 16, 2019

Berty23 said:
I see that an MP who has voted for the withdrawal agreement three times is getting death threats from people who accuse her of blocking brexit. Bizarre.

That's Brexit Britain, facts don't matter, just feelings and emotions

Stat Brother · Oct 16, 2019

This is getting so fudging stupid.

I can't help thinking all the different factions, wanting different things, flopping around like a freshly caught mackerel plays perfectly into Johnson's 'fake-news' plans.

He's got himself into a position where he can propose something he stopped by voting against it.
Have others stop his plan by voting it.
Claim he's the one who will deliver Brexit.

Utter utter madness.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 16, 2019

Brexit Sec confirms Boris Johnson will write letter to the EU on Saturday if no deal has been agreed. This is under the terms of the Benn Act and would mean extension until Jan 31 2020

Via Twitter - Sky news

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 16, 2019

Kinky Gerbils said:
Brexit Sec confirms Boris Johnson will write letter to the EU on Saturday if no deal has been agreed. This is under the terms of the Benn Act and would mean extension until Jan 31 2020

Via Twitter - Sky news

Johnson trying to appear to be law abiding.

Sounds like he has a deal ?

A combination of returning the whip to his rebels ( except those who are now Lib Dems ! ), threatening to kick out any ERG malcontents, bunging the DUP, and snake charming some Labour rebels, may just scrape it through Parliament.

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