[Politics] Brexit

pastafarian · Oct 16, 2019

Lever said:
Okay.... let's just say this is a misunderstanding.

Justice needs to be meted out on criminals - and the law should be blind to the nationality of the offender in dealing with it.

Known foreign criminals need to be prohibited from coming into our country - or in the case of minor criminality, they should be monitored closely....

Is that okay?

Why should those with minor criminality who are accepted as permitted to enter after criminal checks be monitored closely. You are the first person i have ever heard suggest this. I have never heard anyone propose monitoring closely people that pass the criminal check protocols if they have a previous criminal history...........until now.

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 16, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Number 10 now briefing they will chuck out any hard line ERG members who don't vote for the deal.

[emoji38]ol:

Good news.

Kick them out hard.

As soon as the US Congress said they would block a US-UK Trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement was trashed, the choice became a customs boundary in the Irish Sea or *No Brexit*.

It took a painfully long time for the dunces at the back of the class to get there. Kick out those that still haven't.

Lever · Oct 16, 2019

pastafarian said:
Why should those with minor criminality who are accepted as permitted to enter after criminal checks be monitored closely. You are the first person i have ever heard suggest this. I have never heard anyone propose monitoring closely people that pass the criminal check protocols if they have a previous criminal history...........until now.

Welcome back.
....'monitoring closely' as in 'criminal checking protocols' are rigorously followed.

https://wikitravel.org/en/Travelling_with_a_criminal_history

Lever · Oct 16, 2019

pastafarian said:
Surely if the jocks vote to leave our Union the remainers can simply say “no,we don’t like that result,sod the decision to Leave,lets remain in the UK instead”.Its the new rules on referendum voting ……..apparently,well if you are an undemocratic loon it’s the new rules.

Will you be attempting to do your bit to 'bring the UK/country together' (as per the Boris pledge) when this is over, do you think?

nicko31 · Oct 16, 2019

clapham_gull said:
It's pretty much the original May one, except it's not a NI Backstop but a NI now-stop.

The only way of getting round the NI/Ireland border issue is to have a border between The UK and the whole of the the island of Ireland.

NI (semantically) is outside of the Customs Union, but the UK has to operate a border on behalf of the EU to "make it so".

Boris is struggling with the technical detail of how that border would operate, so the EU are threatening a backstop (NI on Customs Union) in case the now-stop doesn't work.

I'm gonna toss a coin and say the above is going "ok" but the arrangements require a long delay to make it happen.

This has split the ERG down the middle, the more pragmatic ones taking a "**** the DUP / We will be out anyway/Loving the ministerial car" position as opposed to the more pro-Unionist / WTO / No Deal / I thought I'd get something from Boris advocates.

They also sussed Boris was never serious about the deadline and he was actually never serious about no deal.

As Tories I'd also imagine they are pissed off he about to find Billions to bribe the ERG.

First signs of a new civil amongst the Tory oddballs, Owen Paterson already having a meltdown

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/10143970/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-causes-major-split/

Thunder Bolt · Oct 16, 2019

pastafarian said:
This is up there as one of the stupidest posts on this thread.
If there is no English culture there is obviously no American culture or Japanese culture or French, Spanish, Scottish, Welsh, Argentinian, Irish, Pakistani or Australian culture. You wouldn’t be so stupid as to suggest all other countries have cultures yet single out England as having none and being the only country with a non existent culture.
In which case, if there are no cultures what is the point of Multiculturalism?
Is it just England that has a non existent culture or is it every country?

Well done. You've managed to quote a third of the original post, taken it out of context, just so you can say how stupid it is. Stupid is as stupid does.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 16, 2019

nicko31 said:
Remember Chequers July 2017.

Think we could have been asleep for two and a half years and missed very little?? Seems nothing has changed, same border in Ireland, same single market, same DUP

Can a square peg ever fit a round hole without breaking the peg?

I think people are starting to wake up to the fact the EU are not the issue here, nor is taking no deal of the table.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 16, 2019

Raleigh Chopper said:
Anything by Steps.

Worst post on here.

Steps are majestic

WATFORD zero · Oct 16, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
I haven't seen the deal. Is it exactly the same?

If it is as reported (and there seems a lot of confidence across parliament, the press and everywhere else that it is) it was actually a very early plan that was strangely dismissed by people who have changed their minds and now want it.

JC Footy Genius said:
I completely understand that some extremist loons would prefer the UK to become a Vassal state rather than see the UK make a clean break and forge a new role in the world.

How very undemocratic :lolol:

ManOfSussex · Oct 16, 2019

Let's just leave on no deal and sign our own free trade deal with our special friends in Washington. Oh................

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...reement-undermined-congressman-says-1.4052229

Publius Ovidius · Oct 16, 2019

Seems like that no one knows what this “ deal” will be apart from some press reports that certain members of the ERG going apoplectic when told about the direction it is going. With Corbin basically going to vote against anything that is agreed, then it looks more likely now that we will leave in one Big Bang with no deal, and Boris will challenge the benn law by signing off a no deal blaming the EU and Corbin.

If that is true, I think that the Torres will go into the election with a “we are the only party that will deliver the will of the people “ ticket and I think they will get back in with a landslide as so many people are so dissolutioned with the process now they will vote for whoever gets us over what ever the line is.

Is it PotG? · Oct 16, 2019

Indeed, I find Corbyn's 'arms crossed, I'm voting it down whatever' stance quite amazing.

Publius Ovidius · Oct 16, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Let's just leave on no deal and sign our own free trade deal with our special friends in Washington. Oh................

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...reement-undermined-congressman-says-1.4052229

Which is what the lady on question time was suggesting that if we piss off the Irish the chance of the Americans giving us special status is zero!

WATFORD zero · Oct 16, 2019

Publius Ovidius said:
Seems like that no one knows what this “ deal” will be apart from some press reports that certain members of the ERG going apoplectic when told about the direction it is going. With Corbin basically going to vote against anything that is agreed, then it looks more likely now that we will leave in one Big Bang with no deal, and Boris will challenge the benn law by signing off a no deal blaming the EU and Corbin.

If that is true, I think that the Torres will go into the election with a “we are the only party that will deliver the will of the people “ ticket and I think they will get back in with a landslide as so many people are so dissolutioned with the process now they will vote for whoever gets us over what ever the line is.

The only problem being that the line it will get us over is the start line to renegotiating our last 40 years of trade deals. Another 50 years of Brexit, JRM reckoned :wink:

Eeyore · Oct 16, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Considering the thousands of posts about how the world was going to end if that dastardly Boris and the mythical disaster capitalist backers engineered a no-deal I would have expected more relief and positivity from the gloomerati if, as looks increasingly likely, a deal can be agreed and we avoid that outcome ..... but no, same old same old.

How do you feel about that deal being close to the one they so vehemently opposed for so long, and one that puts the border across the Irish Sea which they scoffed would never happen ?

Johnson will portray this as a 'victory' and proof of his word. In fact, it's an abdication of his word and, if voted through, will show how the Tories played fast and loose with the country for the sake of their political careers.

I hope it does end here. I was one of the few who supported May's deal. Most who didn't support it knew **** all about what was in it anyway.

Publius Ovidius · Oct 16, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
The only problem being that the line it will get us over is the start line to renegotiating our last 40 years of trade deals. Another 50 years of Brexit, JRM reckoned

Agreed...I think at the end of the day, and the argument about people knowing what they voted for, no one knew just how deeply entrenched we were in the EU and what the challenges are in extricating us from the rules and regulations.

This “ just get it done” is a fanciful wish with no idea really of the implications. Or the implications being we are still this great super power empire in the world and we will be ok on our own!

WATFORD zero · Oct 16, 2019

Is it PotG? said:
Indeed, I find Corbyn's 'arms crossed, I'm voting it down whatever' stance quite amazing.

Well if that was what he said it would be. (Maybe you could show where he said this ?).

He wants to remain in the customs Union. Here he is saying it in February 2018

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43189878

And here he is saying it 3 weeks ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/corbyn-vows-to-put-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum

I think you may be getting a little confused again

Baldseagull · Oct 16, 2019

dingodan said:
I would think that the point would be that British criminals are not better than Romanian or Albanian criminals, but British criminals are our responsibility, Romanian or Albanian criminals shouldn't be.

Australia deals with Australian criminals. But if I, as a Brit, have a criminal record, they won't let me in. Does that make Australia racist towards Brits?

No it doesn't.

Don't blur the lines when it comes to racism. It's counter productive if you are opposed to racism.

I went through this some time back, and I can't be arsed to go through all the stats again, but what I found was that for the age demographic of immigrants, they are less likely to commit serious crime (something that receives a prison sentence), than the UK born population.
Second point, we will likely have Visa free travel with the EU after Brexit, and less information sharing on criminals, meaning that it will become harder to know who we should be turning away at the border, under EU law, the UK has the right to refuse admission to any EU citizen on the grounds of public policy, public health or public security. Proportionality applies, which means previous criminal convictions do not in themselves constitute grounds for refusal. However, those who “commit serious or persistent crimes” and are seen as a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat can be refused entry to the UK.
We can refuse entry to EU citizens on the grounds that our health service is unable to cope, but we would have to show evidence and that there was no other way of relieving that pressure. Same for housing, the reason we don't is because we need migrant workers We have immigration at a high level from the rest of the world, which we could reduce, but it has increased as EU migration has fallen.

Is it PotG? · Oct 16, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Well if that was what he said it would be. (Maybe you could show where he said this ?).

He wants to remain in the customs Union. Here he is saying it in February 2018

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43189878

And here he is saying it in 3 weeks ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/corbyn-vows-to-put-sensible-brexit-deal-to-voters-in-referendum

I think you may be getting a little confused again

View attachment 116204

2 pictures for the price of one, beats a load of emojis I guess.

ManOfSussex · Oct 16, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
Welcome back, you haven't missed much. Thicky/gullible/racists who shouldn't really be allowed to vote, especially in a referendum, which is a terrible form of democratic decision making, must vote again ... in a referendum etc. Also, this referendum should happen before a general election which is usually their preferred form of democracy because the polls don't look good for the forces of Remain/Revoke Oh and MoS still has a drink problem

pastafarian said:
Nothing has changed then,knew i made a good decision to leave the country and pursue foreign porn interests.Is sunday still his big drinking day when the class warrior genie comes out the bottle?

Oh fancy that - when pasta rolls back on to the thread for the first time in a month late on a wet Tuesday evening, The Footy Genius just happens to be online at exactly the same time to allow some mutual backslapping between them.

What a remarkable coincidence.

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