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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
The Clamp said:
Being “honest” about your stupidity doesn’t make you any less stupid.
It’s also unnecessary. It’s plain for anyone to see, you’re thick as mince.
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Lever said:
Please can you think a bit harder about what the future might be for our children under Brexit.

Also can you tell us what you feel you might offer as a convivial fellow drinker in a pub. Wit? Wisdom? Comedy?
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Well, it's clear to see you two are extremely frustrated, why is this??? Why do you feel the need to insult me???


Thunder Bolt said:
It has already been established, the distinctive punctuation errors in Goliath's posts are exactly the same as Two Professors.
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Blue Valkyrie said:
So Goliath is mouldy boots now, not 2 professors ?

With PPF being baker lite, it is hard to keep up.
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Don't believe the hype Valkyrie.

Thank you Thunderbolt, as I keep telling people I am the original and only Mouldy Boots.:clap::clap::clap:
 








M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
Lever said:
Please can you think a bit harder about what the future might be for our children under Brexit.


As difficult to predict as it would be if we remained within the European Project.
No one has a clue what lies ahead by leaving or remaining. We know two things. Firstly, the short term ( approx 2 years ) after leaving will be difficult. Most experts are agreed on that. Beyond that no one knows. We don't know who is going to govern, what changes to laws and taxation they will make. How the UK will comprise etc.
Secondly, the EU will not change course. It will not consolidate. It is hell bent on continued expansion. Most experts ( historians and economists ) agree that this is a likely path to ultimate failure. Germany and France are in control and will try and steer the ship in a direction that suits them best. There will be casualties, there have been already.
Brexit is a huge risk in some eyes, a calculated risk in others. Remaining is a safe and sure option in the short term for many, a complete unknown in years to come for others. Whatever future lies ahead for our children/grandchildren, economically and politically, you can be pretty sure that they will be increasingly warmer, wetter, speak slightly differently, handle very little cash, be more eco-friendly, eat less meat, work fewer hours and struggle to see other viewpoints.
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WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,791
Mo Gosfield said:
No one has a clue what lies ahead by leaving or remaining. We know two things. Firstly, the short term ( approx 2 years ) after leaving will be difficult. Most experts are agreed on that.
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So no one has a clue, but you are going to predict that only the first 2 years will be difficult after leaving (regardless of how we leave ?). And 'most experts are agreed on that' ? Maybe you could provide some links to some of this expert analysis ?

Mo Gosfield said:
No one has a clue what lies ahead by leaving or remaining.

Secondly, the EU will not change course. It will not consolidate. It is hell bent on continued expansion. Most experts ( historians and economists ) agree that this is a likely path to ultimate failure. Germany and France are in control and will try and steer the ship in a direction that suits them best. There will be casualties, there have been already.
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So onto the second thing that you predict even though by your own admittance, no-one has a clue ? And most experts, historians and economists agree with you again ? Maybe you could give some links to these experts, historians and economists analysis that backs up your claim.

Because I wouldn't want someone making the mistake of thinking, rather like your 'no deal won't adversely effect trade' post, that it might all be a load of :shit:

But if all these experts agree with you it should be very easy to prove me wrong ???
 
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B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,192
Imagine if Remainer May was got rid of over backstop to put a leaver in charge who got rid of the backstop by introducing customers border in the Irish Sea which as May said “is something no promise minister could sign up to”

It is almost like any deal is better than no deal.
 


R

Raleigh Chopper

New member
Sep 1, 2011
12,054
Plymouth
Berty23 said:
Imagine if Remainer May was got rid of over backstop to put a leaver in charge who got rid of the backstop by introducing customers border in the Irish Sea which as May said “is something no promise minister could sign up to”

It is almost like any deal is better than no deal.
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Would you like to have another go at that.
 






Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,526
Lever said:
Worth following carefully........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gupTC8e5wvk
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He's wrong a few things. Firstly, there is no guarantee that any new arrangement is going to parliament on Saturday. There is no guarantee they will sit. There is talk of further 'talks' and a softening in the some quarters of the Tory party about October 31st.

I think the Tories are trying to get some sort of deal now. They may just think, with a few political careers facing internal threats (as well as a few sweeteners) that they have the numbers. It'll upset a lot of members but, if sold well, win them the next election.

What do I know though ? About as much as the chap talking there.
 


L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,371
Mo Gosfield said:
Lever said:
Please can you think a bit harder about what the future might be for our children under Brexit.


As difficult to predict as it would be if we remained within the European Project.
No one has a clue what lies ahead by leaving or remaining. We know two things. Firstly, the short term ( approx 2 years ) after leaving will be difficult. Most experts are agreed on that. Beyond that no one knows. We don't know who is going to govern, what changes to laws and taxation they will make. How the UK will comprise etc.
Secondly, the EU will not change course. It will not consolidate. It is hell bent on continued expansion. Most experts ( historians and economists ) agree that this is a likely path to ultimate failure. Germany and France are in control and will try and steer the ship in a direction that suits them best. There will be casualties, there have been already.
Brexit is a huge risk in some eyes, a calculated risk in others. Remaining is a safe and sure option in the short term for many, a complete unknown in years to come for others. Whatever future lies ahead for our children/grandchildren, economically and politically, you can be pretty sure that they will be increasingly warmer, wetter, speak slightly differently, handle very little cash, be more eco-friendly, eat less meat, work fewer hours and struggle to see other viewpoints.
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Most experts? Firstly, I genuinely thought a central theme of the 'Leave' lobby was that the 'experts' should be discounted from the arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1_LHtfuCI
Secondly, how do we know it's most of them? Who are they and what is the breakdown in numbers saying it/ refuting it?
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L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,371
Brighton Lines said:
He's wrong a few things. Firstly, there is no guarantee that any new arrangement is going to parliament on Saturday. There is no guarantee they will sit. There is talk of further 'talks' and a softening in the some quarters of the Tory party about October 31st.

I think the Tories are trying to get some sort of deal now. They may just think, with a few political careers facing internal threats (as well as a few sweeteners) that they have the numbers. It'll upset a lot of members but, if sold well, win them the next election.

What do I know though ? About as much as the chap talking there.
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....or maybe just trying to avoid an extension and then planning to renege on a deal by 'running out of time'; we will see......
 


R

Raleigh Chopper

New member
Sep 1, 2011
12,054
Plymouth
Mouldy Boots said:
Hey Mr Chopper, I don't do second accounts, unlike a lot of the far left posters on here.

Like me or not, one thing is I am direct, honest, and I am thinking for the future of our country and my children.

Can't stand bad losers or bad manners and people who are hypocritical with no ethics.


I am as straight as a die.

You would probably even enjoy a pint with me. :drink::drink:
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If you are thinking about your children, other children and future generations then I suggest you have a very close look at the counter terrorism arrangements we have with the EU, extradition and arrest warrants.
Now, I'm not saying that your children will be killed by a terrorist but many acts of terrorism have been stopped because of these arrangements and they could very well disappear under a no deal.
Not project fear, facts.
We have counter terrorism and extradition arrangements with other countries but they come nowhere near as close as those with the EU.
Many terrorists make there way through Europe or are in France, Germany and Belgium.
I suspect that part of your dislike for immigration stems from some of the awful events that have happened over the years and I sort of get that but I don't agree as I refuse to tar everyone with the same brush.
No doubt someone will pull this apart but as it stands our relationship with the EU regarding all sorts of criminality will disappear under a no deal.
And with our underfunded and depleted police force I don't trust this government to be on top of it after 31st.
Thanks for the offer of a drink, no disrespect but the subject would soon turn to immigration and when that happens I tend to get up and walk out.
I detest any form of racism in any form no matter what the colour of their skin.
 




Mtoto

Mtoto

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2003
1,841
Mo Gosfield said:
Lever said:
Please can you think a bit harder about what the future might be for our children under Brexit.


As difficult to predict as it would be if we remained within the European Project.
No one has a clue what lies ahead by leaving or remaining. We know two things. Firstly, the short term ( approx 2 years ) after leaving will be difficult. Most experts are agreed on that. Beyond that no one knows. We don't know who is going to govern, what changes to laws and taxation they will make. How the UK will comprise etc.
Secondly, the EU will not change course. It will not consolidate. It is hell bent on continued expansion. Most experts ( historians and economists ) agree that this is a likely path to ultimate failure. Germany and France are in control and will try and steer the ship in a direction that suits them best. There will be casualties, there have been already.
Brexit is a huge risk in some eyes, a calculated risk in others. Remaining is a safe and sure option in the short term for many, a complete unknown in years to come for others. Whatever future lies ahead for our children/grandchildren, economically and politically, you can be pretty sure that they will be increasingly warmer, wetter, speak slightly differently, handle very little cash, be more eco-friendly, eat less meat, work fewer hours and struggle to see other viewpoints.
Click to expand...

So on the one hand, no-one has a clue what lies ahead. And on the other, "most" historians and economists - the ones you listen to, at any rate - think that the EU is on "a likely path to ultimate failure". Likely, as I tend to see it anyway, means more than a 50pc chance.

Can't help feeling there's just a teensy-weensy bit of a contradiction here?
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H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
Raleigh Chopper said:
If you are thinking about your children, other children and future generations then I suggest you have a very close look at the counter terrorism arrangements we have with the EU, extradition and arrest warrants.
Now, I'm not saying that your children will be killed by a terrorist but many acts of terrorism have been stopped because of these arrangements and they could very well disappear under a no deal.
Not project fear, facts.
We have counter terrorism and extradition arrangements with other countries but they come nowhere near as close as those with the EU.
Many terrorists make there way through Europe or are in France, Germany and Belgium.
I suspect that part of your dislike for immigration stems from some of the awful events that have happened over the years and I sort of get that but I don't agree as I refuse to tar everyone with the same brush.
No doubt someone will pull this apart but as it stands our relationship with the EU regarding all sorts of criminality will disappear under a no deal.
And with our underfunded and depleted police force I don't trust this government to be on top of it after 31st.
Thanks for the offer of a drink, no disrespect but the subject would soon turn to immigration and when that happens I tend to get up and walk out.
I detest any form of racism in any form no matter what the colour of their skin.
Click to expand...

I have no intention of pulling this apart, as you suggest, but would point out that you speculate initially, saying it could happen, then say it is fact. Well, what is it?
Having said that, it would be a shame if we did not work closely with other countries, with regard to intelligence. As is the case with all of us, I can only go on what I read, but it is said that the Europeans will be the relative losers, as the British have so much more counter-intelligence experience due the NI conflict. No deal may not mean that co-operation will cease with regard to terrorism; I am not sure how you can definitively say so, when everyone would be the loser, and sharing intelligence about a known would-be attacker, for example, would command so much support.
 


L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,371
Hastings gull said:
I have no intention of pulling this apart, as you suggest, but would point out that you speculate initially, saying it could happen, then say it is fact. Well, what is it?
Having said that, it would be a shame if we did not work closely with other countries, with regard to intelligence. As is the case with all of us, I can only go on what I read, but it is said that the Europeans will be the relative losers, as the British have so much more counter-intelligence experience due the NI conflict. No deal may not mean that co-operation will cease with regard to terrorism; I am not sure how you can definitively say so, when everyone would be the loser, and sharing intelligence about a known would-be attacker, for example, would command so much support.
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A shame?
A little understated I think....
 










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