[Politics] Brexit

nwgull · Oct 8, 2019

Icy Gull said:
So do you know how much we pay to the EU in comparison to other countries? I don’t so genuine question. I have always believed that we contribute much more than we take out? I look at how much was thrown at Spain and Ireland and wonder if we ever had as much back?

Will the EU really not miss our contributions?

It’s a net contribution of around 7-8 billion. Sounds a lot, doesn’t it? The loss of this £8b will however not be noticed and will be absorbed by the EU 27, as it’s fairly insignificant in relation to the £4.3 trillion worth of goods that these countries export. They’re not going to miss us as much as ardent leavers like you would like to think.

nwgull · Oct 8, 2019

Icy Gull said:
I don’t think I am falling for anything I just feel exasperation at how long this is dragging out with no reasonable resolution that I am aware of.

I too am of the opinion that we should not be overly concerned about Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and certainly shouldn’t be making it a make or break part of any deal.

The awkward thing is that the US House of Representatives are very concerned about the GFA not being undermined, and the leader of the house has stated that there is no chance of getting any trade deal with the US if this is compromised.

Motogull · Oct 8, 2019

DavidinSouthampton said:
Goebbels - the King of Propaganda - was reputed to have said something along the lines of "If you tell a lie often enough and loudly enough, people will believe it"

I am not sure he actually said that, but it is how Nazi Germany worked and, while I am not comparing this lot to Nazi Germany, that is what has been happening in particular over the last few weeks.....

I see as much busking from Alexander Boris de Piffle bungle**** Johnson as lying. Equally bad to make it up as he goes along. He's not acting in good faith. Even weak and wobbly May meant well albeit misguided.

Berty23 · Oct 8, 2019

Icy Gull said:
I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

This argument really confuses me. I have never understood why people think the EU need to budge. It is us leaving, not them. They have offered a deal on stake it or leave it basis.

portlock seagull · Oct 8, 2019

Berty23 said:
This argument really confuses me. I have never understood why people think the EU need to budge. It is us leaving, not them. They have offered a deal on stake it or leave it basis.

It’s a negotiation. If one side refuses to or an agreement cannot be reached then it’s a no deal. That might be worse. For both parties. We shall see. It’s pure brinkmanship.

Raleigh Chopper · Oct 8, 2019

Motogull said:
You've gotta hand it to Alexander Boris de Piffle bungle**** Johnson. He's going to have the last laugh. We will leave at the end of the month and he will be beside himself. I've had enough of his insincere interviews as he smirks his way through them. He's taking the piss.

Working hard towards a deal my arse, they have done sod all and clearly want a no deal.
As you say he is totally taking the piss and making it up as he goes along.
But I still don't get the no extension but it's against the law bit.
Johnson just has one card up his sleeve, keep banging on about no deal hoping the EU will come round, but they clearly will not.
Johnson is so far out of his depth that Cummings is pulling the strings.
Johnson is a joke, a clown, totally clueless and hopeless.
But the thickos still wait on his every word as he leads us all down the road to a catastrophe.
You really couldn't make it up.

clapham_gull · Oct 9, 2019

At least four Tory ministers now on a resignation watch list. The Merkel call leak was made before Cabinet met and wasn't even mentioned in the meeting.

Most Tory MPs really really don't want no-deal but have been going along with the Boris Master Plan due to party loyalty.

If he and Cummings (well Cummings) can't get a deal expect major resignations across the party.

The Clamp · Oct 9, 2019

Another example of how a No Deal is going to make life very difficult for the most vulnerable in our society.

No-deal Brexit: NI guide dogs face sea trip to enter Republic of Ireland

It means a journey from Londonderry to Donegal - normally a short drive - could involve taking a sea crossing to England or Scotland, driving to Wales, going through the official point of entry in County Wexford and then driving north to Donegal.If the UK leaves the EU without a deal on 31 October, the UK will become what the EU considers an "unlisted third country" under the EU Pet Travel Scheme.

The EU does not consider all non-members to be unlisted but non-EU countries must apply to be listed, judged on veterinary and administrative systems and number of rabies incidences.

"As an unlisted third country, there would be a requirement for pet animals including assistance dogs to enter the EU through a travellers' point of entry," said DAERA.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49863444

And all this while being BLIND!

Still, if it doesn't affect the small minded, little Englanders why should they care.

Kinky Gerbil · Oct 9, 2019

clapham_gull said:
At least four Tory ministers now on a resignation watch list. The Merkel call leak was made before Cabinet met and wasn't even mentioned in the meeting.

Most Tory MPs really really don't want no-deal but have been going along with the Boris Master Plan due to party loyalty.

If he and Cummings (well Cummings) can't get a deal expect major resignations across the party.

Give will walk.

He will want to get the leadership

Stat Brother · Oct 9, 2019

Berty23 said:
This argument really confuses me. I have never understood why people think the EU need to budge. It is us leaving, not them. They have offered a deal on stake it or leave it basis.

We're holding a gun to a head screaming:-

'If you don't take this deal I'll shoot and it will be all your fault'.

The only problem is that the head in question is our own!

pasty · Oct 9, 2019

Can someone help me out here please.

BJ and his cronies still keep banging on about "we will leave on Oct 31st no matter what" and still threatening a no-deal Brexit, but I was under the impression that had been completely kiboshed by Benns Law.

So, is the threat of a no-deal Brexit still a real threat, or is it simply more pathetic filibustering from an ever increasingly panicking Boris?

Stat Brother · Oct 9, 2019

pasty said:
Can someone help me out here please.

BJ and his cronies still keep banging on about "we will leave on Oct 31st no matter what" and still threatening a no-deal Brexit, but I was under the impression that had been completely kiboshed by Benns Law.

So, is the threat of a no-deal Brexit still a real threat, or is it simply more pathetic filibustering from an ever increasingly panicking Boris?

That all depends on your gut.

Do you believe Johnson is a master strategist who is one step ahead of everyone else, capable of a David Blaine style big reveal?

Or

A shyster who's blindly fumbling around in the dark (leaving an unknown amount of children in his wake)

What does your gut say?

Klaas · Oct 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
That all depends on your gut.

Do you believe Johnson is a master strategist who is one step ahead of everyone else, capable of a David Blaine style big reveal?

Or

A shyster who's blindly fumbling around in the dark (leaving an unknown amount of children in his wake)

What does your gut say?

Unfortunately I can't rule out the possibility that he has something of the first option.

Stat Brother · Oct 9, 2019

Klaas said:
Unfortunately I can't rule out the possibility that he has something of the first option.

There's nothing in his entire life that would suggest such a thing is possible and yet he's still Prime minister. :shrug:

Mo Gosfield · Oct 9, 2019

Raleigh Chopper said:
Working hard towards a deal my arse, they have done sod all and clearly want a no deal.
As you say he is totally taking the piss and making it up as he goes along.
But I still don't get the no extension but it's against the law bit.
Johnson just has one card up his sleeve, keep banging on about no deal hoping the EU will come round, but they clearly will not.
Johnson is so far out of his depth that Cummings is pulling the strings.
Johnson is a joke, a clown, totally clueless and hopeless.
But the thickos still wait on his every word as he leads us all down the road to a catastrophe.
You really couldn't make it up.

By ' the thickos ' I assume you mean the majority of the Conservative Party.

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 9, 2019

Icy Gull said:
I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?

The argument for stringing it out is that we need to wait until we have a team of adult negotiators on our side. That is not non-trustworthy Mendacious Johnson's lot. We can do the deal after his bunch of chancers have been given the boot.

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 9, 2019

Sadly, longtime Brexiter Yalland gets it right in his thread about the mutation of Brexit.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1181711773415755777?s=19

Everyone can benefit from reading his thread. Renainers to catch a glimpse of the Brexit positives, Leavers to see how Brexit has now been corrupted into the ugly mess it never should have been.

Hugo Rune · Oct 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
That all depends on your gut.

Do you believe Johnson is a master strategist who is one step ahead of everyone else, capable of a David Blaine style big reveal?

Or

A shyster who's blindly fumbling around in the dark (leaving an unknown amount of children in his wake)

What does your gut say?

Of course Bojo the Clown is no master strategist, but Cummings is.

They’ll write the letter as the law dictates but it’s still a long way to go before the extension is granted. There are lots of things that they can try and do to override the letter.

Let’s hope this group of nasty Torys are kicked out of government long before they get a chance to destroy our economy.

Mo Gosfield · Oct 9, 2019

nwgull said:
The EU 27 current has about 8% of its exports to the U.K. The U.K. has about 46% of its exports to the EU and a significant percentage to other countries that have trade deals with the EU.

EU products being hit with tariffs for exports to the U.K. won’t be ideal for them, but at only 8% and all their other trade deals remaining intact, they will cope. We on the other hand will be ****ed.

1) The UK's temporary tariff regime means that 88% of total imports to the UK, by value, will be eligible for tariff free access.

2) British businesses will not pay tariffs on imports into the UK, for the majority of goods, if we leave without an agreement.

3) An exceptional review process will come into force on exit day, to make changes to the temporary tariff regime, if necessary.

4) The temporary tariff regime is in force for 12 months, whilst a full consultation on a permanent approach to tariffs is undertaken from January.

The temporary tariff regime is far reaching and needs to be studied. Some products will fall quite a lot in price, others will rise. No one can state categorically that we are ****ed until you are able to analyse all the changes and they won't be clearer until post Brexit, let alone the changes to UK taxation legislation, which will take a time to be established.

Icy Gull · Oct 9, 2019

Lever said:
.... and yet you say you were an unequivocal Remain voter?

I don’t need to argue the point with you, if you choose to believe I am an outright liar, your prerogative.

I spend time in France and Spain and have seen the difference that EU money has made, I haven’t seen the same in the UK. I have no idea why commenting on this makes you keep doubting my being a remainer. I have not heard a single current politician who has made me think “yep this is the man or woman who can sort out this cluster****”. Hence I think we should put the patient out of it’s misery rather than have this dominate politics for the foreseeable future. Get out, have an election and let’s see where we go.

The above may be naive in the extreme, stupid even but it’s how I feel :shrug:

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