You may be right but democracy (which you clearly support strongly) shouldn't shrink at the threat of insurrection, should it? I notice that you recognise that violence would be the outcome of a Remain majority referendum now.... so in your mind does that threat come from only one side of the argument or would Remain voters riot in the event of Brexit confirmation? I am interested to know your thoughts....
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
You may be right but democracy (which you clearly support strongly) shouldn't shrink at the threat of insurrection, should it? I notice that you recognise that violence would be the outcome of a Remain majority referendum now.... so in your mind does that threat come from only one side of the argument or would Remain voters riot in the event of Brexit confirmation? I am interested to know your thoughts....
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Compromise? Great idea but cloud cuckoo land
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
If we are the weak, divided, sh*t, prejudiced nation you describe then shirley the MP's are to blame for overwhelmingly voting to let the racist, empire loving, thickies, <insert prejudiced, patronising trope here> have a vote in a referendum. But thanks for being the latest remainer in knowing the motives (all terrible obvs) of all 17.4 million leave voters ... once again showing those that describe themselves as 'liberal' are some of the most prejudiced, intolerant people in this country.
It's time just under half the country woke up and realised most nations in the world don't have to stay locked inside a political union to prosper and succeed in the world. For the UK 'driving' the EU project see applying the brakes at every opportunity while France/Germany with a majority of other passengers continually direct the car to a destination we don't want. We can do better and we will.
nwgull
Well-known member
Blows away any notion that the Leave vote wasn’t motivated to a significant degree by nationalism and racism. The Leave neanderthals will be loving this sort of jingoistic shit though.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Hard to say as I think we’d vote to remain but if we didn’t I can’t see a reason for remainers to riot
The compromise was the May deal, unpopular with different factions for a range of diverse reasons, but still a compromise.
A decision without another final referendum or similar confirmation would mean 48% of the voters will be entirely marginalised.
Hard to say as I think we’d vote to remain but if we didn’t I can’t see a reason for remainers to riot
So why should Leavers riot in the event of a clear Remain majority?
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
It’s not the best of three is it? We voted to leave, we should leave imo. I don’t agree with the original referendum result but I accept it.
I am just a layman, my opinions are just that, they carry no weight.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
i wonder, if the result of 2nd ref were 52/48 in favour to remain, does that mean 48% are marginalised and is that OK?
Your opinions carry as much weight as anyone else's but I think your claim that you were once 'ardent' in wishing to Remain is a little suspect; did you really think through your reasons? The arguments for having a confirmatory vote/final referendum are well documented as is your standard Brexiter (best of three?) rebuttal. A final referendum with 'forget the whole thing' included on the ballot paper is understandably unpopular but may be the best option left.
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nwgull
Well-known member
The EU 27 current has about 8% of its exports to the U.K. The U.K. has about 46% of its exports to the EU and a significant percentage to other countries that have trade deals with the EU.
EU products being hit with tariffs for exports to the U.K. won’t be ideal for them, but at only 8% and all their other trade deals remaining intact, they will cope. We on the other hand will be ****ed.
I understand the logic but it doesn't totally follow. This is a tory made mess and Cameron should have introduced a threshold of say 60% for any change; now we should consider it.
He didn't - and 52% to 48% is not a sufficient mandate for either side of the argument. To carry on with such monumental changes without sufficient support is unacceptable.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
You have fallen for the Mendacious Johnson spin.I know but sometimes you just have to face reality, the EU appear to be making absolutely no concessions so feck ‘em
I’ve had enough of this shit and stringing it out any longer with no hope of any sort of resolution to suit them and us is madness.
On the other hand, there is a valid point. An independent sovereign state must be able to decide whether it is in a customs union or not with the EU.
My view - throw the DUP under the bus, and put the customs boundary in the Irish Sea. Throw in an Irish re-unification referendum if need be. Part of the price of Brexit, and solves a lot of the problems.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
So do you know how much we pay to the EU in comparison to other countries? I don’t so genuine question. I have always believed that we contribute much more than we take out? I look at how much was thrown at Spain and Ireland and wonder if we ever had as much back?
Will the EU really not miss our contributions?
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
I don’t think I am falling for anything I just feel exasperation at how long this is dragging out with no reasonable resolution that I am aware of.
I too am of the opinion that we should not be overly concerned about Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and certainly shouldn’t be making it a make or break part of any deal.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,330
On the sovereign state customs union point I would say you are correct, but that decision will always have to be be based and balanced upon the political and economic realities, and the expectations/responsibilities that a sovereign state has.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 16,597
May took the piss out of May. In my view she should have done things enormously differently if she (or anyone else) was to make a go of BREXIT. Like talking to people she perhaps didn't want to talk to - like Corbyn, Sturgeon at al - rather than concentrating on keeping her own party together.... which was always going to end in disaster.
And all along the EU can't really do anything until we give them something to respond to.
.... and yet you say you were an unequivocal Remain voter?
Motogull
Todd Warrior
- Sep 16, 2005
- 9,867
You've gotta hand it to Alexander Boris de Piffle bungle**** Johnson. He's going to have the last laugh. We will leave at the end of the month and he will be beside himself. I've had enough of his insincere interviews as he smirks his way through them. He's taking the piss.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 16,597
Goebbels - the King of Propaganda - was reputed to have said something along the lines of "If you tell a lie often enough and loudly enough, people will believe it"
I am not sure he actually said that, but it is how Nazi Germany worked and, while I am not comparing this lot to Nazi Germany, that is what has been happening in particular over the last few weeks.....