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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,084


DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,617
Icy Gull said:
I am an ardent remainer but the EU are such a bunch of intransigent ***** that I am now happy to leave with no deal. We’ll be fecked but so will they and the whole thing will implode for everyone. There doesn’t appear to be a solution so feck them let’s get out, we’ll suffer but so will they.

*cuts nose off to spite face*
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Firstly, we will be a blooming sight more fecked than them.... and
Secondly, we are deliberately banging on about the “undemocratic” backstop, when it was us who asked for it in the first place, and everyone else except the leaders of our government apparently can see the Irish border question is very difficult and potentially dangerous.

Johnson and co are deliberately trying to show the EU as being intransigent when they are being entirely reasonable.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,746
The Fatherland
As an aside, has Boris’ father said anything about his mess of a son yet? I know his sister and brother have.
 


Icy Gull

Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
DavidinSouthampton said:
Firstly, we will be a blooming sight more fecked than them.... and
Secondly, we are deliberately banging on about the “undemocratic” backstop, when it was us who asked for it in the first place, and everyone else except the leaders of our government apparently can see the Irish border question is very difficult and potentially dangerous.

Johnson and co are deliberately trying to show the EU as being intransigent when they are being entirely reasonable.
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In the short term we are certainly more fecked but in the long term? I think not
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,746
The Fatherland






Icy Gull

Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Lever said:
I think you are bright enough to know there is more than one 'reality' and by acceding to Johnston's 'reality' and blaming the EU you are doing what the hard Brexiters have been working towards for some time.
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I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Bwian said:
The Tories-the Party of Chaos, Lies and Division are likely to win thanks to the ridiculous Fist Past the Post system we have. That and a few boundary changes here and there...
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They have proven themselves to be exactly that. And Corbyn and his merry Momentum crew are Marxists who will do huge damage. As yo rightly say the FPTP system is not fit for purpose
 
















Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Icy Gull said:
I know but sometimes you just have to face reality, the EU appear to be making absolutely no concessions so feck ‘em :shrug:

I’ve had enough of this shit and stringing it out any longer with no hope of any sort of resolution to suit them and us is madness.
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As a remainer you're not the only one with your opinions as you say no point in dragging it out any longer
Unfortunately we have # team EU die hards clinging on like shit to a Blanket
Regards
DF
 






vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,907
Icy Gull said:
I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?
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May and a small cabal in No.10 took it upon themselves to decide the red lines before the negotiations started. maybe, just maybe, if we had some kind of debate about what we wanted from the deal with the EU before we started we might have got somewhere collectively as a government and a country. May trapped herself in red lines with little or no room to manoeuvre when the negotiations took place.

The EU certainly did not take the piss out of her, she did that herself with her inability to communicate other than by repeated soundbites and dancing on stage at the Tory party conference, the set disintegrating behind her as her voice failed during her " keynote " speech and by being shown up by people in the street as unable to communicate or engage with the electorate.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,834
Hove
Icy Gull said:
I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?
Click to expand...

The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?
 


L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,386
Icy Gull said:
I am no fan of Johnson and I am not blaming the EU but how do you suggest we proceed? The EU took the piss out of May and how long do we string this out? Do you see a solution? Another referendum would make a mockery of democracy (however misguided, imo) and lead to even more division especially if we voted remain.

We are between a rock and a hard place and I’m yet to hear a convincing argument to string this out any longer. Do you have one?
Click to expand...

Sorry but the language you use gives you away; I don't think anyone has a solution but we need to find a compromise that we can all live with.
I think that you are being disingenuous to describe yourself formally as an ardent Remainer since (apparently out of sheer frustration....) you have altered your position. Speaking of changing our minds, Conservative MPs have been doing it in droves over the past weeks.... so why are voters prohibited from showing that they have too?
 




birthofanorange

birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
5,941
David Gilmour's armpit
Bold Seagull said:
The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?
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Spot on.
 


Icy Gull

Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Bold Seagull said:
The convincing argument is that where we currently are couldn't have been known 3 years ago. The detail we have from May's negotiations, from Johnson's negotiations, what the impact willl be on the UK, specifically Northern Ireland is now clear. The difference between a soft exit remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market compared to a hard exit couldn't be more stark.

Instead of Project Fear, we have closer to Project Facts. Informed decisions can be made on what your vote will actually do to the United Kingdom. Democracy gives people the power to change their minds. It doesn't make a mockery at all to ask again, only if you fear a different answer. If leaving the EU is the will of the British people, presented first with the idea of leaving the EU, then with the detail of what that will look like, how can that not be democratic?
Click to expand...

Letting us vote on this with no real understanding of the consequences was a massive feck up, but we did and however reasonable another referendum, for the reasons you give, would be it would result in fighting in the streets, should the vote be for remain.
 


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