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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
beorhthelm said:
im not blaming anyone, nor ignoring history, we're not there any more. you dont want to think or talk about it, reflects the general response to the question. doesnt really matter who caused a problem, if you need to deal with it, you need a plan to deal with it.
Click to expand...

You're quite right - we're not there anymore. It's just I clearly remember growing up in the 1980's though and I know full well what it was like, so forgive me if I don't want to risk going back to how it used to be with the sectarian divisions stirred up by things that were got rid off coming back into being required, such as visible physical infrastructure, as per any other border in the world. If you want to focus purely on trade, think about the impact of economic integration being interrupted causing things like smuggling becoming lucrative again for certain illegal organisations and joining those certain illegal organisations becoming very appealing again, as those sectarian divisions are sowed, particularly to an unemployed youth if that sector finds it's ranks growing in places like West Belfast and the lovely housing estates west of the River Foyle in Derry.

You're quite right too that you need a plan to deal with it. It'd be nice if HM Government could actually come up with one.
 




Blue Valkyrie

Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
Putin mobilising his army east of Ukraine.

Trumpski ordered by his boss to pull the US military out of Open Skies treaty, partially blinding NATO.

31st October - *No deal* chaos.



..... The Kremlin's grand plan is happening.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,833
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Pretty pink fairy said:
Hi all , wish you were here , nothings changed I see, some deluded Scots got put in their place I see
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the Scottish court case where the Government admitted in a court of law that they would adhere to the Benn Act and extend A50, thus leaving them with no possibility of failing to do so without committing contempt of court?
 






JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
nicko31 said:
I would have taken May's deal, but the Brexiters got greedy and now risk the very existence of our country, and maybe even their own Brexit that Murdoch, Dacre and the owners of the Ritz fought so hard for.

If Brexit doesn't happen you know who to blame...
Click to expand...

Yes, I do as do the vast majority of leavers and remainers ....

ComRes poll found that both Leavers and Remainers blamed 'Parliament generally' more than any other entity for the current deadlock, with 94% of Brexiteers and 79% of Remainers pointing the finger at MPs.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...-would-blame-parliament-more-boris-johnson-if
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,586
JC Footy Genius said:
Yes, I do as do the vast majority of leavers and remainers ....

ComRes poll found that both Leavers and Remainers blamed 'Parliament generally' more than any other entity for the current deadlock, with 94% of Brexiteers and 79% of Remainers pointing the finger at MPs.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...-would-blame-parliament-more-boris-johnson-if
Click to expand...


The fault lies squarely with the British electorate. They elected the MPs in Parliament, while a slim majority swallowed the line they were span and voted for Brexit. Let's not forget the 13 million who didn't bother to vote in the most important referendum in over 40 years.

Whatever shit we have coming is our responsibility. Our casually racist, ideas above our station, empirical, nostalgic, superior attitude which pervades society has led to this position. To a greater or lesser degree we are all responsible for this and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

It is time for this nation to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not a United Kingdom, there is no Empire, no Special Relationship with the USA, Europe are our friends but we treat them like shit. The world doesn't listen to Britain anymore and the only place we did have a voice was within the EU where we used to be one of 3 great nations driving the project.
 


W

WilburySeagull

New member
Sep 2, 2017
495
Hove
Pavilionaire said:
The fault lies squarely with the British electorate. They elected the MPs in Parliament, while a slim majority swallowed the line they were span and voted for Brexit. Let's not forget the 13 million who didn't bother to vote in the most important referendum in over 40 years.

Whatever shit we have coming is our responsibility. Our casually racist, ideas above our station, empirical, nostalgic, superior attitude which pervades society has led to this position. To a greater or lesser degree we are all responsible for this and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

It is time for this nation to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not a United Kingdom, there is no Empire, no Special Relationship with the USA, Europe are our friends but we treat them like shit. The world doesn't listen to Britain anymore and the only place we did have a voice was within the EU where we used to be one of 3 great nations driving the project.
Click to expand...

This exactly.
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
JC Footy Genius said:
Yes, I do as do the vast majority of leavers and remainers ....

ComRes poll found that both Leavers and Remainers blamed 'Parliament generally' more than any other entity for the current deadlock, with 94% of Brexiteers and 79% of Remainers pointing the finger at MPs.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...-would-blame-parliament-more-boris-johnson-if
Click to expand...

The MPs are doing what they are elected to do, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not a Cummings, Boris, Rabb, Smog dictatorship. The lies to the people that this was the most simple deal ever to negotiate, that the Irish border issue was a smokescreen, that we would get back etc has been outed. Long may Parliamentary sovereignty rule over the tinpots.

We all know this’ll come down to an election. Let’s see if the Tories run on a hard Brexit manifesto and what that means to their prospects and future. They my win, they may not.
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,833
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Pavilionaire said:
The fault lies squarely with the British electorate. They elected the MPs in Parliament, while a slim majority swallowed the line they were span and voted for Brexit. Let's not forget the 13 million who didn't bother to vote in the most important referendum in over 40 years.

Whatever shit we have coming is our responsibility. Our casually racist, ideas above our station, empirical, nostalgic, superior attitude which pervades society has led to this position. To a greater or lesser degree we are all responsible for this and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

It is time for this nation to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not a United Kingdom, there is no Empire, no Special Relationship with the USA, Europe are our friends but we treat them like shit. The world doesn't listen to Britain anymore and the only place we did have a voice was within the EU where we used to be one of 3 great nations driving the project.
Click to expand...

I think this Twitter thread is a quite compelling argument.

[TWEET]1074634063322013696[/TWEET]
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,608
Gods country fortnightly
Hampster Gull said:
The MPs are doing what they are elected to do, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not a Cummings, Boris, Rabb, Smog dictatorship. The lies to the people that this was the most simple deal ever to negotiate, that the Irish border issue was a smokescreen, that we would get back etc has been outed. Long may Parliamentary sovereignty rule over the tinpots.

We all know this’ll come down to an election. Let’s see if the Tories run on a hard Brexit manifesto and what that means to their prospects and future. They my win, they may not.
Click to expand...

Got this bad feeling the Tories will win, unless the remain alliance get its sh1t together. The Lib Dems and Labour generally don't compete in the same seats, if they don't act smart we'll see the serial liar in no.10 for 5 years...
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
nicko31 said:
Got this bad feeling the Tories will win, unless the remain alliance get its sh1t together. The Lib Dems and Labour generally don't compete in the same seats, if they don't act smart we'll see the serial liar in no.10 for 5 years...
Click to expand...

Yep, for sure its possible. It’s amazing how fast the Tories have gone from their sales script, the party of stability, the union, financial prudence, security, to this shambles. Lies upon lies. Threatening our close allies in the EU today on security co-operation. Likely pushing NI and Scotland out of the Union. Promises that match the spending promises of the Labour Party, and that’s before the tax cuts Boris said he will do, and after years of cutting back. And what a place we are in, that or Corbyn.
 


S

Seaber

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2010
1,130
Wales
There might be something odd about this prorogation today.

I had completely forgotten it was happening until I saw the House of Commons order paper today. It's due to be announced in three hours, but the order of council is yet to be published. This normally happens days in advance. It can only be found by changing a few numbers (the dates) in the URL of other orders of council.

Government trying to keep it quiet or genuine mistake?

Edit: I misread the date, the council met today but have still not published the order of council officially. Cutting it fine.

Edit 2: Jo Johnson has been sworn in to the Privy Council...
 
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beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
Pavilionaire said:
The fault lies squarely with the British electorate. They elected the MPs in Parliament, while a slim majority swallowed the line they were span and voted for Brexit. Let's not forget the 13 million who didn't bother to vote in the most important referendum in over 40 years.

Whatever shit we have coming is our responsibility. Our casually racist, ideas above our station, empirical, nostalgic, superior attitude which pervades society has led to this position. To a greater or lesser degree we are all responsible for this and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

It is time for this nation to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not a United Kingdom, there is no Empire, no Special Relationship with the USA, Europe are our friends but we treat them like shit. The world doesn't listen to Britain anymore and the only place we did have a voice was within the EU where we used to be one of 3 great nations driving the project.
Click to expand...

the fault lies with the politicians who have been unable to provide leadership. too many are skewed on the horns of a dilemma to follow their conscience or follow their constituents, so voting to leave in principle but not leave by any of the means offered, while baulking at 2nd referendum or outright revoking. by now some groups should have been putting out coherent arguments to remain or a agenda to reschedule the process. instead the electorate are told they voted wrong. at this point the pro-leave vote has become entrenched on the principle of the vote being respected, it barely matters what the vote was for.
 




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,864
Hastings gull said:
That is precisely the sort of arrogance I was expecting and so sadly typical of you and your ilk. Yes, there have been insults hurled from all sides, but your guarantee is worthless: I wonder if you recall on another issue, when I dared to disagree with you, that you immediately resorted to name-calling?
Click to expand...

Are you referring to this exchange on a completely different thread about National Service from 4 months ago ? (Not one to hold a grudge :wink:)

WATFORD zero said:
Very briefly - I think you are an idiot
But I'm afraid I'm out at the moment and don't have time to answer fully.
Maybe tomorrow, if I can be arsed
Click to expand...

Hastings gull said:
I have followed your responses over time on the Brexit thread, and this absurd response confirms everything I suspected about you - intolerant, naïve and with your readiness to insult, childish and immature in the extreme.
Click to expand...

In which case I'm vey sorry I can't live by your extremely mature example and rise above petty insults the way you do :facepalm:

And you really believe that me pointing out 'the reason so few Leave supporting posters come on this thread anymore is because they have no valid case whatsoever for leaving the EU' displays the arrogance of me and my ilk ? Ah bless, I would have worded it differently if I had realised you were that precious :cry:

Besides which you seem to have managed to totally ignore the main part of my post, so I have repeated it (again :rolleyes:) below

WATFORD zero said:
This democratic vote that has to be 'respected'.

We tried leaving with a deal, and it appears there was no majority for that.

We even tried leaving with no deal (which was specifically ruled out as part of the Leave campaign), and it appears there was no majority for that.

So what should we do now to 'respect' this vote now :shrug:
Click to expand...
 
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Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,864
JC Footy Genius said:
I expect parliaments which vote overwhelmingly to give the people a say in a referendum ... parliaments that overwhelmingly vote to trigger article 50 so we can leave ... parliament that is overwhelmingly made up of MP's elected on manifestos saying they will enact the result ... to keep their promises and do their democratic duty.
Click to expand...

I missed the bit in the various party manifestos where they were promising to enact a 'no deal' Brexit ? Maybe you could point it out ???
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,586
beorhthelm said:
the fault lies with the politicians who have been unable to provide leadership. too many are skewed on the horns of a dilemma to follow their conscience or follow their constituents, so voting to leave in principle but not leave by any of the means offered, while baulking at 2nd referendum or outright revoking. by now some groups should have been putting out coherent arguments to remain or a agenda to reschedule the process. instead the electorate are told they voted wrong. at this point the pro-leave vote has become entrenched on the principle of the vote being respected, it barely matters what the vote was for.
Click to expand...

The majority of the Electorate - all Remainers and even some Leavers - agree that leaving the EU with No Deal is a bad thing for the UK, yet we have a Prime Minister who seems hell bent on leaving with No Deal. The only thing that can stop him are a majority of MPs and they've passed the Benn Act to prevent him from doing so. Therefore, the MPs have reflected the will of the people in that regard.

It is unsurprising politicians can't agree on a Deal to put forward to the EU because no such plan was presented to the electorate in the 2016 Referendum. Brexit then was all things to all people, and still remains so to this day.
 




Bwian

Bwian

Kiss my (_!_)
Jul 14, 2003
15,898
Pavilionaire said:
The fault lies squarely with the British electorate. They elected the MPs in Parliament, while a slim majority swallowed the line they were span and voted for Brexit. Let's not forget the 13 million who didn't bother to vote in the most important referendum in over 40 years.

Whatever shit we have coming is our responsibility. Our casually racist, ideas above our station, empirical, nostalgic, superior attitude which pervades society has led to this position. To a greater or lesser degree we are all responsible for this and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

It is time for this nation to wake up and smell the coffee. We are not a United Kingdom, there is no Empire, no Special Relationship with the USA, Europe are our friends but we treat them like shit. The world doesn't listen to Britain anymore and the only place we did have a voice was within the EU where we used to be one of 3 great nations driving the project.
Click to expand...

But Leave means Leave. Didn't you get the memo?

Great post which will annoy the Unicorn Farmers.
 


Bwian

Bwian

Kiss my (_!_)
Jul 14, 2003
15,898
Hampster Gull said:
The MPs are doing what they are elected to do, we live in a parliamentary democracy, not a Cummings, Boris, Rabb, Smog dictatorship. The lies to the people that this was the most simple deal ever to negotiate, that the Irish border issue was a smokescreen, that we would get back etc has been outed. Long may Parliamentary sovereignty rule over the tinpots.

We all know this’ll come down to an election. Let’s see if the Tories run on a hard Brexit manifesto and what that means to their prospects and future. They my win, they may not.
Click to expand...

The Tories-the Party of Chaos, Lies and Division are likely to win thanks to the ridiculous Fist Past the Post system we have. That and a few boundary changes here and there...
 


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