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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,207
An ex adviser to Michael Gove (Sam freedman) makes a salient point re no deal.

Once more for the people at the back:

There is no such thing as "no deal" there is either a permanent deal agreed during an orderly transition or there is one agreed during disorderly chaos. We can't "walk away" from the bloc we do 50% of our trade with.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,840
Deepest, darkest Sussex
beorhthelm said:
and this complies with the GFA?
Click to expand...

In that scenario the UK will have breached the GFA through it's actions and thus the document would be largely void. The penalties for breaching an international treaty in this way are severe, and the UK will be the guilty party.
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
beorhthelm said:
and this complies with the GFA?
Click to expand...

If Nancy Pelosi and her Irish-American Senator and Congressman colleagues say it does and they give the green light for an #Americafirst trade deal with The UK, then yes. If she doesn't, then no. We're the ones leaving The EU, not the other way round, so we're the ones causing the problem.
 


Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,044
at home
Can someone explain what Boris means by the people who vote against any sort of deal he wants in the European Parliament will be at the back of the queue when we are doing deals, when the EU do deals collectively. That is the whole point!

Also, if there is a no deal, does that mean the current arrangement for the eu citizens who are still here is also off the table, and if so what happens to them and presumably all the million and a half brits living in Europe?
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Publius Ovidius said:
Can someone explain what Boris means by the people who vote against any sort of deal he wants in the European Parliament will be at the back of the queue when we are doing deals, when the EU do deals collectively. That is the whole point!

Also, if there is a no deal, does that mean the current arrangement for the eu citizens who are still here is also off the table, and if so what happens to them and presumably all the million and a half brits living in Europe?
Click to expand...

The briefing threats related to security and intelligence cooperation deals rather than trade.
 




Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,044
at home
ManOfSussex said:
If Nancy Pelosi and her Irish-American Senator and Congressman colleagues say it does and they give the green light for an #Americafirst trade deal with The UK, then yes. If she doesn't, then no. We're the ones leaving The EU, not the other way round, so we're the ones causing the problem.
Click to expand...


Which essentially was what the American lady on question time was saying...you shaft the Irish and the chances of any deal with the Americans will be non existent. I don’t think people in the uk realise just how strong the tie with american and Ireland actually is...most of them regard themselves as Irish anyway( even the ones who have no one in their ancestry, but may have visited Ireland on a Cruise once)
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,840
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Publius Ovidius said:
Also, if there is a no deal, does that mean the current arrangement for the eu citizens who are still here is also off the table, and if so what happens to them and presumably all the million and a half brits living in Europe?
Click to expand...

Basically they're ****ed. The UK Government have unilaterally introduced a massively flawed settlement scheme for EU citizens in the UK which kicks in whatever (I believe), but in No Deal the UK citizens abroad are likely to lose their access to healthcare and bank accounts because of what "No Deal" entails around data sharing and financial transactions.
 


Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,044
at home
ManOfSussex said:
The briefing threats related to security and intelligence cooperation deals rather than trade.
Click to expand...


Blimey, that is really good news for us. So now not only are we falling out big time, we are not even going to have security cooperation.... jeez
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
A1X said:
In that scenario the UK will have breached the GFA through it's actions and thus the document would be largely void. The penalties for breaching an international treaty in this way are severe, and the UK will be the guilty party.
Click to expand...

this is a popular theory, but does it stand up? if the EU impose a border, that is not the UK's responsibility. this GFA problem is being taken too much at face value, the EU dont seem to have taken any action towards a border. the deal was aimed to EU plans, they have reject as unworkable. so what is there plan then, in the event of no deal?
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Publius Ovidius said:
Blimey, that is really good news for us. So now not only are we falling out big time, we are not even going to have security cooperation.... jeez
Click to expand...

I wonder in this proposed new post Brexit cold war, if anyone in MI6 does cooperate with our erstwhile fellow western friends in The EU, they'll be branded traitors, collaborators and enemies of the people etc?
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,840
Deepest, darkest Sussex
beorhthelm said:
this is a popular theory, but does it stand up? if the EU impose a border, that is not the UK's responsibility. this GFA problem is being taken too much at face value, the EU dont seem to have taken any action towards a border. the deal was aimed to EU plans, they have reject as unworkable. so what is there plan then, in the event of no deal?
Click to expand...

As far as the EU is concerned there will be a transition until the end of next year. No Deal is entirely a UK problem, but the EU is prepared to bail Ireland out if it comes to it.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,608
Gods country fortnightly
A1X said:
As far as the EU is concerned there will be a transition until the end of next year. No Deal is entirely a UK problem, but the EU is prepared to bail Ireland out if it comes to it.
Click to expand...

No deal = No transition

We're in breach of the GFA with no plan, EU must protect its external borders to 3rd countries. Tariffs need to be collected...
 


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,840
Deepest, darkest Sussex
nicko31 said:
No deal = No transition

We're in breach of the GFA with no plan, EU must protect its external borders to 3rd countries. Tariffs need to be collected...
Click to expand...

Yes, the point is as far as the EU are concerned they have agreed a deal which they are happy with. This is now entirely the UK's problem, no matter how much of a tantrum the UK Government throws.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
Publius Ovidius said:
Can someone explain what Boris means by the people who vote against any sort of deal he wants in the European Parliament will be at the back of the queue when we are doing deals, when the EU do deals collectively. That is the whole point!

Also, if there is a no deal, does that mean the current arrangement for the eu citizens who are still here is also off the table, and if so what happens to them and presumably all the million and a half brits living in Europe?
Click to expand...

just playing up for the crowd, if the deals not happening he needs to try and salvage some face. expect current arrangements all still stand, though they are vague?
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,597
The Fatherland
Publius Ovidius said:
Can someone explain what Boris means by the people who vote against any sort of deal he wants in the European Parliament will be at the back of the queue when we are doing deals, when the EU do deals collectively. That is the whole point!

Also, if there is a no deal, does that mean the current arrangement for the eu citizens who are still here is also off the table, and if so what happens to them and presumably all the million and a half brits living in Europe?
Click to expand...

If you are living abroad it’s down to what your host country does. Thankfully the German government are looking after, and protecting me, from my own country. It’s a requirement to register* if you live in Germany so they simply rolled over my registration into a live and work in perpetuity visa.

* never understood why this doesn’t happen in the U.K.
 


L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,378
Hastings gull said:
We are in agreement about the insults situation, thankfully. The rest of your post, does, however, show that element of intolerance that Dingodan is referring to. Why can't you just say that you respect his views, and why do his views not deserve credit? Yours do, so why not his? The answer, of course, is that you don't agree and so what others write is not deservous of respect.
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The intolerance (if that is the term you wish to use) is with repetition of the same sad old slogans, not the person putting them forward. I try to respect them as I respect the points you are making. However, I am guarded against suggestions that somehow all will be okay if we just accede to the Brexit vote. Having said that I would really like to know what you mean by 'respect'....
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,608
Gods country fortnightly
Herr Tubthumper said:
If you are living abroad it’s down to what your host country does. Thankfully the German government are looking after, and protecting me, from my own country. It’s a requirement to register* if you live in Germany so they simply rolled over my registration into a live and work in perpetuity visa.

* never understood why this doesn’t happen in the U.K.
Click to expand...

Do you have a German passport? My understanding is dual nationality is only allowed with EU countries, not 3rd countries...
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
beorhthelm said:
this is a popular theory, but does it stand up? if the EU impose a border, that is not the UK's responsibility. this GFA problem is being taken too much at face value, the EU dont seem to have taken any action towards a border. the deal was aimed to EU plans, they have reject as unworkable. so what is there plan then, in the event of no deal?
Click to expand...

This is the lie Rees-Mogg likes to put forward.

If you and I agree to have no fence between our gardens, so our kids can have more space to play, it might be me that puts a fence up when you leave an aggresive rottweiller in your garden, but it is you that has caused the need for the fence.

In the event of No Deal, we will quickly beg the EU to have the withdrawal agreement that May negotiated applied and start negotiating the future trade deal. There will not be a no deal, it is so shit, that for the Tory party to be responsible for it would kill any hopes of winning the next election, the threat of it is supposed to make things happen to avoid it, like having a nuclear bomb, but this particular nuclear bomb is strapped to our chest.
 




G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,341
Uffern
Publius Ovidius said:
Blimey, that is really good news for us. So now not only are we falling out big time, we are not even going to have security cooperation.... jeez
Click to expand...

So, we're not only running the risk of a return to para-military activity in Northern Ireland but the UK forces are no longer going to co-operate with the Garda or Irish intelligence services. What genius came up with that idea?
 


C

cjd

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2006
6,105
La Rochelle
So....in a nutshell.....the posh public schoolboy is having temper tantrum.
 


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