[Politics] Brexit

Bold Seagull · Oct 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
Just a question, with all the economic doom and gloom bandied about for when we leave the EU.

Did I miss it, or wasn't there a massive recession, that has resulted in government spending slashed across the board, before the referendum and the chance of us leaving the EU.

Doesn't look like we were fairing too well in, either!

So if you are unable to separate reasons for economic downturns, whether global, self inflected or within a trading bloc you or in, then I guess you could say that.

Blue Valkyrie · Oct 4, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
The Taoiseach yesterday said there's basically 5 solutions to the Irish border:

1. A united Ireland.
2. The Republic of Ireland rejoins The UK.
3. The UK remains in The EU
4. The UK stays in The EEA and Customs Union.
5. The Backstop is signed up to, pending further 'negotiations' in which obviously The UK hold all the aces.

What's your preference and why, or have you got an alternative solution? Or is the alternative solution, which apparently according to English Tory MP's does exist, a secret as well?

1 - The obvious price we'll need to pay for Hard Brexit.

2 - Never going to happen.

3 - Argue, argue, argue...

4 - Hallelujah - the compromise which heals the country. NI only for the CU, obviously.

5 - A deal is on the table for this.

darkwolf666 · Oct 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
So if you are unable to separate reasons for economic downturns, whether global, self inflected or within a trading bloc you or in, then I guess you could say that.

But I thought the recession and lack of money in the pot was all down to Labour's reckless spending!

Don't tell me I've been lied to again, damn I'm always falling for it, these pesky politicians telling porkies to fit their own agenda!

Will I never learn?

Bold Seagull · Oct 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
But I thought the recession and lack of money in the pot was all down to Labour's reckless spending!

Don't tell me I've been lied to again, damn I'm always falling for it, these pesky politicians telling porkies to fit their own agenda!

Will I never learn?

You haven't been lied to, you just only heard what you wanted to hear.

WATFORD zero · Oct 4, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
1 - The obvious price we'll need to pay for Hard Brexit.

2 - Never going to happen.

3 - Argue, argue, argue...

4 - Hallelujah - the compromise which heals the country. NI only for the CU, obviously.

5 - A deal is on the table for this.

I do appreciate your POV and, and to be fair, you do put forward a good case completely grounded in reality (unlike some :wink:

), but I have to disagree with point 4. Although it is achievable, I can't see why it would heal the country.

There would still be a split down the middle of the country on Leave/Remain and a further split on Sensible deal/No deal. So I think your solution would only please a minority, the size of which we really have no idea.

That's why I'm for a 2nd referendum with 3 choices, of which one would be yours or close to yours (probably Britain in CU). At least then we would know the numbers, rather than everyone guessing.

(And before anyone posts about 'splitting the leave vote' read this https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&highlight=Triggaaar)

darkwolf666 · Oct 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
You haven't been lied to, you just only heard what you wanted to hear.

So what you're saying is that I just THINK I'm being lied to because of what I hear people saying, but in reality I'm not being lied to because those people are lying to me?

Is that right?

Bold Seagull · Oct 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
So what you're saying is that I just THINK I'm being lied to because of what I hear people saying, but in reality I'm not being lied to because those people are lying to me?

Is that right?

A lie is a falsehood to cover up a truth. Being mistaken or wrong isn't a lie, it's just being wrong.

darkwolf666 · Oct 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
A lie is a falsehood to cover up a truth. Being mistaken or wrong isn't a lie, it's just being wrong.

Still not quite getting it, was it a lie that Labour caused the UK recession? Or am I just wrong?

Was the big NHS bus a lie, or am I just wrong? Again!

Bold Seagull · Oct 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
Still not quite getting it, was it a lie that Labour caused the UK recession? Or am I just wrong?

Was the big NHS bus a lie, or am I just wrong? Again!

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Pretty pink fairy · Oct 4, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Why do you think an ardent remainer would ever entertain the idea of Brexit, Norway style or any other ? Moron

Nice swerve

regards
DF

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 4, 2019

Plooks said:
I don't know if you noticed but the referendum result was ****ing YEARS ago! It is hardly relevent anymore.

WATFORD zero said:
If it's a simple case of finding a proposal that will get through the HOC, I have a better proposal than Johnson's. I propose we keep all the benefits of being in the EU, have no border controls, stop paying any contribution and stop adhering to EU rules and regulations.

I can guarantee that will fly through the HOC, can't see any issues with that, whatsoever

Genius. I think you've cracked it.

WATFORD zero · Oct 4, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Nice swerve
regards
DF

Now I know you're the Brexit Village idiot, but I think you have actually managed to surpass yourself

Swerve of what :shrug:

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 4, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
A lie is a falsehood to cover up a truth. Being mistaken or wrong isn't a lie, it's just being wrong.

Where does that leave being deliberately or obstinately or wilfully wrong or mistaken..... I guess it's a lie, then.

Like persisting with the idea of £350m per week for the NHS even after the office of National Statistics had said it was a serious overestimating of what we pay to the EU.

Or being wrong or mistaken can be equated to being stupid, like John Redwood or Michael Gove saying that negotiating a deal with the EU will be easy because we hold all the aces.

Pretty pink fairy · Oct 4, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Now I know you're the Brexit Village idiot, but I think you have actually managed to surpass yourself

Swerve of what

The original question , never mind you'lll be put out of your misery soon and normal service will be resumed :wave:

Regards
DF

Lever · Oct 4, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
The original question , never mind you'lll be put out of your misery soon and normal service will be resumed
Regards
DF

What does 'you'lll' mean?

WATFORD zero · Oct 4, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
The original question , never mind you'lll be put out of your misery soon and normal service will be resumed
Regards
DF

I'm not sure you had much to start with, but you've certainly lost it now :shrug:

Baldseagull · Oct 4, 2019

dingodan said:
Yep unfortunately looks like you are right. Still pressure on the EU to accept the deal if it get's passed in the HoC though.

If Johnson (or someone else) has to write to the EU asking for an extension, I hope he attaches a letter to it stating something to the effect of:

"We want an extension for the express purpose of removing the backstop. That is what this extension is to be for, that is the only thing we will use the time for. Please let us know if you want to accept this requested extension".

Would at least make it difficult for them to accept, especially if the HoC have approved a deal and it's basically the EU who need to move not us.

Interesting few weeks ahead.

It should not go to the HoC until there is an agreement between the EU and UK negotiators, it could be put as an indicative vote, but no point if it is all that Johnson is offering.

Baldseagull · Oct 4, 2019

beorhthelm said:
some drugs are in short supply, various reasons such as factories closing, product changes, regulator intervention, supply chain problems, grey market cross selling. the impact is worldwide and happens to some extent all the time. and in about every industry too. there is no reason any drug would not be available from the EU, as long as they are available there.

But if there is a short supply, might the EU prioritise EU citizens over outside countries?

Baldseagull · Oct 4, 2019

dingodan said:
Yes the Malthouse Compromise is what I was talking about. I think the pressure would be more given that we are basically at the end of the line now.

It's this deal or very similar, otherwise it's going to be no deal.

Even another delay wouldn't change the situation, it would just end up being no deal at the end of January.

Extension would provide the time for an election, which may or may not change the situation, or a referendum which should give a clear mandate for one course of action or another, if the options are clear. The issue is what will parliament allow to be on the Ballot, some will scream blue murder if no deal is not on the ballot, yet it is an outcome few politicians would take, even of those currently saying we can handle it, I think less than half would actually do it.

Baldseagull · Oct 4, 2019

dingodan said:
The power would be with both sides, neither side want a border, neither side have any objection to alignment in certain areas. The objection was always to the EU deciding unilaterally.

I don't see how the EU can argue that they don't want one of the interested parties in Ireland to have a say, but it should accepted that the EU will decide. Like I said, the EU have to move, this is compromise, their previous suggestion wasn't compromise. It's time for them to move if they are serious about a deal.

Many in the EU do not like the Backstop arrangement because it would give us single market access without having all the responsibilities, for as long as there were no alternative arrangements at the border, i.e. forever, or until Northern Ireland elected to join the republic, or we rejoin the EU. The EU would be keen to find alternative arrangements,

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