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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,881
hassocks
dingodan said:
Well everything I've been hearing has been that it would probably pass.

There was a vote a while back on an amendment which basically was for the previous WA, but with the backstop replaced with alternative arrangements. It passed by 16 votes (the only thing so far to have passed).

The DUP have said they would support this new deal, the ERG people have almost all got behind it. Many Labour MP's previously supported a deal and, while they would be under pressure from the leadership to oppose anything put forward, many of them are very concerned about the fact that their consituencies voted to leave and don't want to be seen as denying the ref result, causing a delay, or causing no deal, especially with an election right around the corner.

It's not certain, but I think everyone want's this over with, in a way which doesn't fly in the face of the refurendum result or result in no deal. No guarantees but I can see this passing, especially having heard the debate earlier today and the amount of support for the proposals from all sides.

There aren't really any decent excuses left to oppose this deal and still look like you want to respect the ref result, and a vote for it would encourage the EU to make this work so we can all get on with our lives. Anyone who fails to vote for this deal will have a tough time arguing that they would have ever voted for anything.
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I think you have to consider the timing of this

Are some MPs saying this publicly due to an upcoming election?

It’s unlikely to get by the EU so it’s possible they won’t have to vote for anything.
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Raleigh Chopper said:
I see we have stopped the export of some drugs because of the threat that we won't be able to get the amount we need from the EU under no deal.
Drugs companies have been told not to hike up the price of the drugs or they will be in 'serious trouble'
Just the start of it.
Shame we can't prove how we voted, remainers should be at the front of the queue then I could get any medicine I want and I can step over the leavers as I leave the chemist.
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You could do with sedating
Regards
DF
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,296
dingodan said:
"what does it say?"

"Mr Johnson will have until 19 October to either pass a deal in Parliament or get MPs to approve a no-deal Brexit."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49580500
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It's an interesting possible loop hole but the problem is:

1) A "deal" isn't a "deal" until the two parties sign.

2) If the EU start discussions it will receive a number of changes. Even Boris has admitted that.

So voting on it prior to discussions or (if) the EU reject it is an absolutely pointless exercise and I doubt it will get past the speaker.

They've already attempted indicative votes, it didn't work.







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dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
Raleigh Chopper said:
I see we have stopped the export of some drugs because of the threat that we won't be able to get the amount we need from the EU under no deal.
Drugs companies have been told not to hike up the price of the drugs or they will be in 'serious trouble'
Just the start of it.
Shame we can't prove how we voted, remainers should be at the front of the queue then I could get any medicine I want and I can step over the leavers as I leave the chemist.
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The issue with medicines has nothing to do with Brexit, it's a long standing issue and those involved have been very clear, it is not related at all to Brexit.
 






dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
clapham_gull said:
It's an interesting possible loop hole but the problem is:

1) A "deal" isn't a "deal" until the two parties sign.

2) If the EU start discussions it will receive a number of changes. Even Boris has admitted that.

So voting on it prior to discussions or (if) the EU reject it is an absolutely pointless exercise and I doubt it will get past the speaker.

They've already attempted indicative votes, it didn't work.

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It's not pointless, everyone wants to know what the HoC could accept. This deal is not the same as TM's deal, there would be no problem with it being put to a vote, the speaker wouldn't obstruct a vote on it.

The EU may want some changes to it, but those changes would have to be mindful that the starting point is a deal which can pass the HoC, no point in changing it so much that we are back to square one and the HoC can't support it. Johnson can only agree to so much change before he would no longer have the support needed for it to pass.

It really is on the EU to move towards us at this point, we've moved a lot. All we've done is move. Haven't seen them move at all yet, that's not sustainable if they want their £39B and don't want to be blamed for no deal.
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,290
Raleigh Chopper said:
I see we have stopped the export of some drugs because of the threat that we won't be able to get the amount we need from the EU under no deal.
Drugs companies have been told not to hike up the price of the drugs or they will be in 'serious trouble'
Just the start of it.
Shame we can't prove how we voted, remainers should be at the front of the queue then I could get any medicine I want and I can step over the leavers as I leave the chemist.
Click to expand...

some drugs are in short supply, various reasons such as factories closing, product changes, regulator intervention, supply chain problems, grey market cross selling. the impact is worldwide and happens to some extent all the time. and in about every industry too. there is no reason any drug would not be available from the EU, as long as they are available there.
 
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Grombleton

Grombleton

Surrounded by <div>s
Dec 31, 2011
7,356
Pretty pink fairy said:
It is if you're a liberal Democrat , are you ready for Brexit?
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Says the person telling everyone else to get in line :lolol: its like you're completely oblivious to your own bile. Still, must be nice to live in abject ignorance.
 






pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,283
dingodan said:
Yep unfortunately looks like you are right. Still pressure on the EU to accept the deal if it get's passed in the HoC though.

If Johnson (or someone else) has to write to the EU asking for an extension, I hope he attaches a letter to it stating something to the effect of:

"We want an extension for the express purpose of removing the backstop. That is what this extension is to be for, that is the only thing we will use the time for. Please let us know if you want to accept this requested extension".

Would at least make it difficult for them to accept, especially if the HoC have approved a deal and it's basically the EU who need to move not us.

Interesting few weeks ahead.
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If it did pass a HoC indicative type vote (50/50 IMO) it would apply some political pressure on the EU to accept, but I think only a negligible amount.

I think the 'Malthouse Compromise' had a majority but that meant didly squat as from the EU's perspective it solved nothing.

I can't see a deal being agreed with the EU in the next two weeks, let alone then agreed in Parliament, so yes interesting times ahead...

Edit: it seems the Malthouse Compromise wasn't voted for at all :facepalm:
 








Wrong-Direction

Wrong-Direction

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2013
13,415
Deary me this is depressing, why do you do it to yourselves

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Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,514
dingodan said:
Yep unfortunately looks like you are right. Still pressure on the EU to accept the deal if it get's passed in the HoC though.

If Johnson (or someone else) has to write to the EU asking for an extension, I hope he attaches a letter to it stating something to the effect of:

"We want an extension for the express purpose of removing the backstop. That is what this extension is to be for, that is the only thing we will use the time for. Please let us know if you want to accept this requested extension".

Would at least make it difficult for them to accept, especially if the HoC have approved a deal and it's basically the EU who need to move not us.

Interesting few weeks ahead.
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Grey area. I'm not sure the House will vote unless the EU have reached an agreement though. In which case an extension is the next stage. That's what the legislation seems to indicate.
 






clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,296
dingodan said:
It's not pointless, everyone wants to know what the HoC could accept. This deal is not the same as TM's deal, there would be no problem with it being put to a vote, the speaker wouldn't obstruct a vote on it.

The EU may want some changes to it, but those changes would have to be mindful that the starting point is a deal which can pass the HoC, no point in changing it so much that we are back to square one and the HoC can't support it. Johnson can only agree to so much change before he would no longer have the support needed for it to pass.

It really is on the EU to move towards us at this point, we've moved a lot. All we've done is move. Haven't seen them move at all yet, that's not sustainable if they want their £39B and don't want to be blamed for no deal.
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It LOOKS like we have moved but the sting is in the tail. Effectively a small party in NI can set it all back to square one. It's complete hypocrisy to vote against Mays deal on the basis that only the EU can decide when the border "is ok" and then effectively give that power to the DUP in this proposal.

The only solution is to start from a position where the border is open. Then work out can be done.

Not work out how you want to leave the EU and worry about the border at the end.

That's been the problem from day one



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Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Lever said:
Maybe because no one knows exactly what will happen to us when and if Brexit happens? Winners? Losers?
Or do you know? If so, do tell......
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Winning or losing doesn't come into it , life will.still go on or are you going to give up.and sit in the corner sulking ??
regards
DF
 


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