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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,546
Cumbria
The democratic voice of the HoC that overwhelmingly rejected the deal 3 times that the EU insists is the only deal we can have.

'The only deal we can have' that fits with May's red lines - it's nonsense that it is all down to the EU. The EU would be more than happy to reach other deals that result in a softer Brexit.
 

larus

Well-known member
So, if we won't install a physical border, how do we limit/check free movement of good and people? And if we don't do that, how have we 'taken back control'?

Taking back control was so much more than the ROI border FFS.

Most sane people realise that the border has been politicised by the EU/Remainers to make is seem as though we can’t leave the EU. There already is a difference between the ROI/NI in terms of tax/vat - do you accept that? How can that work?

Of course there are issues, but the border in NI is not a reason for the 5th largest economy in the world to have to be a vassal state of the EU. It’s absolutely pathetic to use terrorism as an argument for that. We won’t be erecting any physical infrastructure, and checks can be done away from the border.

Most goods imported into the UK are NOT CHECKED. It would be impossible. Do you accept that?
 

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
It's the only deal on the table that fits May's red lines. The EU would be more than happy to reach other deals that result in a softer Brexit.

I have seen numerous EU statements saying the WA cannot be reopened. When have they said they will renegotiate/open it?
 

larus

Well-known member
I have seen numerous EU statements saying the WA cannot be reopened. When have they said they will open it?

As they have seen a leaver government now willing to actually leave without a deal, there have been comments from various EU parties that they are open to discussions.

Now, when us leavers said this would be that case if we threatened No Deal, we were ridiculed. But again, the reaminers have proven to be so out of touch with reality. All the time the EU think the parliament will block a No Deal Brexit, they have no incentive to negotiate. Now they have seen a different government, they are starting to slowly adjust,
 

Murray 17

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
2,159
Again. The original referendum gave us a "what" for the outcome.

A second referendum would give the opportunity to choose a brexit or remain.

If you are so democratic you wouldn't have anything to worry about, right?

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It's ironic that you should use the word democratic, because the only party who have said they would ignore the referendum result completely, is the Liberal Democrats!

We don't need another referendum, because the 2016 one has given us a result. It's funny that just after the referendum, Remain were calling for another one because 52% was not enough. Then the argument switched to the negotiated deal not being good enough. Now the argument is that Boris is stiffling democracy, although what he is doing is perfectly legal. Someone being interviewed on the BBC this morning, even said that 54% of people voted for a party supporting a soft, or no Brexit in the last GE. That really is grasping at straws! I'm sure many Leavers voted for Labour for their social policies - Brexit is not the only issue.

All of the above shows that Remain are trying everything in their power to stop Brexit. I guess if Leave had lost, I would have wanted the same from my 'side'.

If we did have another referendum, and Leave won again, this would all continue as the Remainers again, wouldn't accept it.

I stated earlier in this thread that nobody will 'win' this argument on NSC, and I bet virtually no-one has changed sides during the 95000+ posts.

I will respectfully duck out of this thread now, as I've no intention of using up any more time debating it.
 


theonlymikey

New member
Apr 21, 2016
789
The democratic voice of the HoC that overwhelmingly rejected the deal 3 times that the EU insists is the only deal we can have.

The original referendum gave us a clear mandate to leave. If a second referendum gave one to remain it's one all ... best of three?

Leave aren't brick walling anyone they are trying to enact the initial referendum result and the 2017 General election result. Democrats enact election results, undemocratic loons keep asking a question until they get the result they want.
It's not the only deal that we can have. If this was true, Norway and Switzerlands agreements with the EU simply would not exist.

Let that sink in.

We had the option to make this easy for ourselves, but three years of pandering to ultra brexiters has produced a deal the worst of both worlds.

A customs union as a result of cross party collaboration would have got a majority. No tribalism, no red lines, common sense thrown in and we would have left 5 months ago.

less than a third of the country want no deal. Less than a third of the country think proroguement is acceptable.

So let's put it back to the people .

You will either get your how or we remain. But at least nobody could argue against the result in a preference referendum.

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theonlymikey

New member
Apr 21, 2016
789
I have seen numerous EU statements saying the WA cannot be reopened. When have they said they will renegotiate/open it?
In it's current form in consideration of the red lines.

Boris hasn't removed any red lines, in fact he's added more.

Remove the red lines and they will be more flexible. Tusk basically said as such after the meetings with Labour.

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Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,359
OK, so would you overturn GE’s if one or other party has been deceitful?
How far back do you want to go?

Fact - all politicians lie. Even Lucas (so beloved by so many on here) has lied in saying she wanted a government of national unity, led by women. But it wasn’t only women, - no, they had to be remainers too, none of those horrible leaver scum. Can’t have that can we?

So, with respect, your faux outrage over the referendum is gesture politics. You don’t want to leave the EU, so try to use pious arguments to justify your desire to overturn the will of the people.

You are right about one thing at least. Of the options on offer at the moment, I would prefer not to leave the EU. But the 'will of the people' is simply misleading rhetoric; it means 52% of voters who wanted us to Leave in 2016. While I respect the integrity of their decision, I do not believe Leave success was achieved without criminal tampering - and this has been confirmed in subsequent legal rulings. If we must leave and I can think of few advantages and many disadvantages, then the type of Brexit should reflect the will of the 48% as well as the 52%.
 


theonlymikey

New member
Apr 21, 2016
789
As they have seen a leaver government now willing to actually leave without a deal, there have been comments from various EU parties that they are open to discussions.

Now, when us leavers said this would be that case if we threatened No Deal, we were ridiculed. But again, the reaminers have proven to be so out of touch with reality. All the time the EU think the parliament will block a No Deal Brexit, they have no incentive to negotiate. Now they have seen a different government, they are starting to slowly adjust,
It's a good outlook on it. But also very wrong.

The EU are open to alternatives to the backstop.

Boris was given 30 days to find one (The mail reported this as a "victory ". However, an EU spokesman on Friday said despite being open to alternatives, they had no contact from the UK about a single alternative proposal in the 9 days following this.

Naive is the word of the day.

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theonlymikey

New member
Apr 21, 2016
789
As they have seen a leaver government now willing to actually leave without a deal, there have been comments from various EU parties that they are open to discussions.

Now, when us leavers said this would be that case if we threatened No Deal, we were ridiculed. But again, the reaminers have proven to be so out of touch with reality. All the time the EU think the parliament will block a No Deal Brexit, they have no incentive to negotiate. Now they have seen a different government, they are starting to slowly adjust,
I won't ridicule you for the government lying to the public.

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Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Unfortunately that horse has bolted for me ..but hopefully I will get a decent pay off when what is left of my company transfers to mainland Europe.

Personally I really do hope that we can get a deal out of this mess. Who knows though.

My other half is in a similar situation where their main customers are in the EU. I think the company could fold rather than transfer.
I hope it gets sorted out for you.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,237
No, it was Theresa May's idea. The other alternative was to have the border in the Irish Sea but the DUP voted against it.
We could still leave the EU but be in the single market which would solve the problem.

customs union. the single market is defacto the EU. besides this minor, tired, point, the original idea isnt the issue as it relates to the transition period. the problem is the EU imposition that they unilaterally decide if any solution is suitable.
 


larus

Well-known member
It's a good outlook on it. But also very wrong.

The EU are open to alternatives to the backstop.

Boris was given 30 days to find one (The mail reported this as a "victory ". However, an EU spokesman on Friday said despite being open to alternatives, they had no contact from the UK about a single alternative proposal in the 9 days following this.

Naive is the word of the day.

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I won't ridicule you for the government lying to the public.

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Oh dear. Another self-righteous remainer who thinks they are oh, so smart.

Look, I’ll break it slowly to you.
The remain side lied about everything.
They lied about a £30bln emergency budget.
They lied about 500,000 increase in unemployment
They lied about an immediate recession.
They lies about interest rate rises.
They lied about the future of the EU - it plans on being a superstate, with tax raising powers and it’s own army.
They lied about the on-going loss of sovereignty to national parliaments.

So, if you are so sure of your arguments, and so sure this is what the public ant, then why don’t remainers spell it out clearly to the people.

I never hear any reaminers saying why we should stay - only the fear of leaving.
 

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
It's not the only deal that we can have. If this was true, Norway and Switzerlands agreements with the EU simply would not exist.

Let that sink in.

We had the option to make this easy for ourselves, but three years of pandering to ultra brexiters has produced a deal the worst of both worlds.

A customs union as a result of cross party collaboration would have got a majority. No tribalism, no red lines, common sense thrown in and we would have left 5 months ago.

less than a third of the country want no deal. Less than a third of the country think proroguement is acceptable.

So let's put it back to the people .

You will either get your how or we remain. But at least nobody could argue against the result in a preference referendum.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

One quote from an official EU source that says we can renegotiate/open the WA please. Just one.

Three years of a Remain MP dominated government trying to please all sides in a Remain MP dominated HoC that repeatedly failed to come to an agreed position.

The Customs union option was rejected by the HoC.

If you want to quote polls "Boris needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary, in order to prevent MPs stopping it" 44% agree 37% disagree.

See undemocratic loon - keep asking the question until you get the answer you want.

Oh I'm sure the usual suspects would be back whining on about how the latest referendum was unfair if leave won... again.
 

Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,865
Guiseley
Not very many people are there Notters. Even the London pic shows a crowd of only several thousand or so people down half of Whitehall. Looking forward to seeing some wide angle shots rather than the selective views of the twitterati.

Eh? Can't speak for anywhere else but the Leeds one was packed. Far more than they were expecting - they'd fenced off an area for it and it spilled over into the adjacent roads and a fairground that's there for the summer.

My photos aren't great to be honest, I couldn't get high enough.

Screenshot_20190831-223052_Gallery.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
You are far too entertaining for me to do that at the moment.

You don't have a partner, do you?
Well, I will take that back you have your other NSC alter ego.
Perhaps you need to go and get Intimate with him, as you were born to self pleasure.
 


JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Given that the EU would much prefer a softer Brexit, of course they would re-open discussions towards a new deal that incorporated it.

It's not about what they would have preferred it's about the current reality. They have spent three years negotiating a deal they want and have repeatedly stated it can't be reopened.
 

Grombleton

Surrounded by <div>s
Dec 31, 2011
7,356
Oh dear. Another self-righteous remainer who thinks they are oh, so smart.

Look, I’ll break it slowly to you.
The remain side lied about everything.
They lied about a £30bln emergency budget.
They lied about 500,000 increase in unemployment
They lied about an immediate recession.
They lies about interest rate rises.
They lied about the future of the EU - it plans on being a superstate, with tax raising powers and it’s own army.
They lied about the on-going loss of sovereignty to national parliaments.

So, if you are so sure of your arguments, and so sure this is what the public ant, then why don’t remainers spell it out clearly to the people.

I never hear any reaminers saying why we should stay - only the fear of leaving.

I think we have a full house on Leaver bingo here.
 

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