But the point is, like it or not, they have what the hard Brexiteers were always after - and they will not let go. The meaning and purpose of 'democracy' is subordinate and bends to that outcome.....
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
But the point is, like it or not, they have what the hard Brexiteers were always after - and they will not let go. The meaning and purpose of 'democracy' is subordinate and bends to that outcome.....
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,866
I do understand the view of a business owner as I have owned and run a number of SMEs for years. I also made the decision to give up a regular monthly income to have more control over what I was doing and took on all the pressure that goes with running companies, employing staff and not necessarily having a regular income (and then kept doing it). But it was my decision and I'm happy with it.
That is why I am fully aware of what the current state of Brexit is doing to SMEs who, unlike you, do trade overseas (you obviously ignored my statement about sales lead times). I also have a view on the impact of Brexit, if it ever happens (and even worse, a 'no deal' Brexit) on the vast majority of SMEs, both those that trade purely domestically and those who trade overseas.
But the statement about how you operate your business and the issues and stresses are equally true whether for the vast majority of SMEs at some point, whether we were staying in the EU or leaving, so I didn't see what the point of it was. I do understand that it's hard work and stressful running a business, but that has nothing to do with Brexit.
Now as you have clearly stated, you believe that the financial hit of Brexit is worth it in your mind for yourself personally and your business. I am simply pointing out that you are in a minority amongst SME owners and bodies who represent SMEs, and that the poor will not be able to make that same sacrifice, that you believe is so worthwhile
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Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I have and joining the EU made life a lot better.
Faux outrage? I would rather be part of the EU especially with the employment rights gained from being part of it, than the 51st state of the USA, which is where this is heading.
It is interesting that all the vile right wing Brexit-tubthumping rags haven't seen fit to report this:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn
https://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/pelosi-warns-brexit-british-trade-deal
Seriously, it irritates me that this sort of thing is suppressed just because it doesn't suit their narrative. They are the first to bleat about freedom of press, but as far as I'm concerned freedom of press comes with responsibility and I think they have a duty to report ALL news, not just the news they want people to read.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn
https://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/pelosi-warns-brexit-british-trade-deal
Seriously, it irritates me that this sort of thing is suppressed just because it doesn't suit their narrative. They are the first to bleat about freedom of press, but as far as I'm concerned freedom of press comes with responsibility and I think they have a duty to report ALL news, not just the news they want people to read.
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
Having done my best to follow the debates on the thread, I'm still (genuinely) not sure where the Brexiteers (other the ppf) stand on the issue of 'no deal'. As we are fast approaching crunch time this is something that we as a country and individually need to front-up.
I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that most would accept a no deal. But are there any that would simply say no to no-deal?
I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that most would accept a no deal. But are there any that would simply say no to no-deal?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
[tweet]1156167162626826240[/tweet]
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
We know where Ernest stands too ...
I am certain most Brexiteers (including me) want a deal, even at this late stage but not any old deal and certainly not one the one that includes tying us inside the customs union indefinitely without an exit date. If no deal happens it is because the EU (Eire) insists a deal that has been rejected by the United Kingdom parliament on numerous occasions and by a record margin, cannot be changed. If avoiding no deal and increased tensions in NI is so important to the Irish I have no idea why they couldn't agree to a temporary backstop (say 2 years) where our future trade relationship would be partially negotiated /much clearer with the possibility to extend the agreement at any time to continue trade negotiations but also have the ability, with a set amount of notice ( say 6 months) to end the process (very unlikely). Pretty sure this would have got through the HoC and still would.
Btw if the reverse had happened and the European parliament had rejected the deal numerous times with a record majority against, I doubt many remainers on this thread would be saying it's ok for the UK government to ignore them and stick to a position of rejected deal or no deal. On the question of fronting up I take it you would be prepared to accept any deal, no matter how bad, rather than no deal.
But I keep reading that technology exists that can solve this backstop thing? Certainly half the current cabinet seem to think so. Maybe they should reveal all so we can leave quick snap.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Well the EU certainly think alternative solutions are possible but the point about kicking this can down the road is the more comprehensive the trade deal .. the less new technology we will need.
On the other hand, I'd be very happy with a deal that kept us within the customs union indefinitely. That's part of the trouble, Brexiteers can't agree on what they want
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,894
Farage started work on Boris last week saying that Johnson " cannot be trusted to deliver Brexit ".... A nice double whammy for our Nige, it puts more pressure on Johnson to deliver and highlights that Farage heads a voting group that will split votes from the Tories in a GE. It also helps keep the Brexit Party membership fees rolling in.... Kerching!
Nigel fundraising again
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-risk-of-dark-money-from-farage-led-lobbyists
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-risk-of-dark-money-from-farage-led-lobbyists
I'm sure nobody struggling on benefits on less than £100 a week was - and I come from somewhere that voted leave with high levels of benefit dependency. I get the distinct impression I know of more people living on benefits and low fixed incomes than you do too. This comes back to the £350m a week thing as well - it wasn't aimed at people like you who can afford to take the hit and it's inference was critical in the campaign for those it was.
I understand your second point entirely because it's just classic Brexiteer nostalgia - a good bit of suffering like we had in the good old days - a recession/depression/war - that's what we need in this country. Roll our sleeves up and invoke the Blitz spirit and go back to how things used to be. The problem is you think people are going to put up with it in the 21st Century.
You're wrong then. At the time I voted leave I was on benefits of £73 a week.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Vote Leave said we were going to get a great deal.
[tweet]1156278900797902848[/tweet]
[tweet]1156278900797902848[/tweet]
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
How long were you on JSA (Assuming it was and ESA) for in 2016? I assume you were you on Housing Benefit too?
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
Double standards! If, as you claim, current rules mean that we should ignore a referendum decision then under such rules it would be correct to ignore the next referendum result whatever it is. We would have to default all the way back to 22 June 2016. Seems fair.
PS We disagree for sure but I don't know how the turmoil, division and colossal expense of the past three years can be defined as 'ignoring'.
Quite. Farage is desperate to keep the Brexit Party relevant.