[Politics] Brexit

The Clamp · Jun 4, 2019

Firstly, let’s have it right. The referendum was categorically deemed not binding until after the fact. The reneging of our government on this is highly undemocratic.
Secondly, democracy is nit always best upheld. Take for example the town of Leith in the U.S ;
A small rural community in the Mid West ( I think). Some strangers came into town and started buying up property and land Then started moving their friends in. Lots of friends. Then they started flying the Swastika above their doors, then holding Nazi rallies. Soon they ran for council and mayor and head of police. They got voted in for each title as they had the majority in the town.
Within three months the small town has gone from a small, unassuming little farming community to a Nazi stronghold with rallies and marches down the high street every day.
But that’s democracy I guess. Nothing can be done if that’s what the majority want.

I believe the documentary is on Netflix.

Baldseagull · Jun 4, 2019

The Clamp said:
Firstly, let’s have it right. The referendum was categorically deemed not binding until after the fact. The reneging of our government on this is highly undemocratic.
Secondly, democracy is nit always best upheld. Take for example the town of Leith in the U.S ;
A small rural community in the Mid West ( I think). Some strangers came into town and started buying up property and land Then started moving their friends in. Lots of friends. Then they started flying the Swastika above their doors, then holding Nazi rallies. Soon they ran for council and mayor and head of police. They got voted in for each title as they had the majority in the town.
Within three months the small town has gone from a small, unassuming little farming community to a Nazi stronghold with rallies and marches down the high street every day.
But that’s democracy I guess. Nothing can be done if that’s what the majority want.

I believe the documentary is on Netflix.

There is a selectiveness to which "promises" can be dropped without any loss of democracy, and which ones we are told will cause rioting in the streets as to not follow through on those would be the end of democracy in our country.
The ones that seems especially easy to drop is the one that said we would leave with a deal, and that "There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave."
Being honour bound by a legally non binding referendum does not seem unreasonable, until you see how unreasonable the possibility of being able to deliver the result as it was represented in the campaign actually is.

darkwolf666 · Jun 4, 2019

The Clamp said:
Firstly, let’s have it right. The referendum was categorically deemed not binding until after the fact. The reneging of our government on this is highly undemocratic.
Secondly, democracy is nit always best upheld. Take for example the town of Leith in the U.S ;
A small rural community in the Mid West ( I think). Some strangers came into town and started buying up property and land Then started moving their friends in. Lots of friends. Then they started flying the Swastika above their doors, then holding Nazi rallies. Soon they ran for council and mayor and head of police. They got voted in for each title as they had the majority in the town.
Within three months the small town has gone from a small, unassuming little farming community to a Nazi stronghold with rallies and marches down the high street every day.
But that’s democracy I guess. Nothing can be done if that’s what the majority want.

I believe the documentary is on Netflix.

I’ve always got on well with your opinions on here and given you many a thumbs up (oh, er), but I think your analogy for democracy is a little wide of the mark, unless you are comparing those that voted to leave Europe with Nazis?

The Clamp · Jun 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
I’ve always got on well with your opinions on here and given you many a thumbs up (oh, er), but I think your analogy for democracy is a little wide of the mark, unless you are comparing those that voted to leave Europe with Nazis?

The point is one can’t just go around screaming “democracy must be upheld” regardless. Democracy doesn’t always work.

darkwolf666 · Jun 4, 2019

The Clamp said:
The point is one can’t just go around screaming “democracy must be upheld” regardless. Democracy doesn’t always work.

So, if you don't want the answer, don't ask the question?

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 4, 2019

The Clamp said:
Firstly, let’s have it right. The referendum was categorically deemed not binding until after the fact. The reneging of our government on this is highly undemocratic.
Secondly, democracy is nit always best upheld. Take for example the town of Leith in the U.S ;
A small rural community in the Mid West ( I think). Some strangers came into town and started buying up property and land Then started moving their friends in. Lots of friends. Then they started flying the Swastika above their doors, then holding Nazi rallies. Soon they ran for council and mayor and head of police. They got voted in for each title as they had the majority in the town.
Within three months the small town has gone from a small, unassuming little farming community to a Nazi stronghold with rallies and marches down the high street every day.
But that’s democracy I guess. Nothing can be done if that’s what the majority want.

I believe the documentary is on Netflix.

You're sounding like a typical Soy boy
regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 4, 2019

It's a good time to be a Brexiteer Nige and the Brexit party ahead of both Labour and the Tories and Mr Trump with some welcome advice .
Regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 4, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
I’ve always got on well with your opinions on here and given you many a thumbs up (oh, er), but I think your analogy for democracy is a little wide of the mark, unless you are comparing those that voted to leave Europe with Nazis?

Of course he is but will he admit it
regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Jun 4, 2019

nicko31 said:
It is quite amusing how the threat of the Lib Dems has lead to a reincarnation of Belotti from several Brextremists on here. What happened to the Brexit nostalgia from 2016, sunny uplands, Brexit dividends, trade deals in Berlin the day after we left, etc etc

they're coming , chin up
regards
DR

ManOfSussex · Jun 4, 2019

LlcoolJ said:
It's called "desperation". JC used to be one of the more sane Brexit proponents. As he's seen it all unravel and go to cock, he's gone down the "batshit metal" route rather than the "oh, I actually got it wrong" route.

It's a difficult thing to admit that you've been fooled. Especially when you've been a massive advocate of the stuff that turns out to be the actual lies that you were fooled by. Lies that you, personally, fell for and championed. It must be a sickener.

It's human nature to keep fighting even when you've lost in that situation. However stupid it makes you look, you keep going.

I get it.

He's yesterday's man now I'm afraid - I told him before, but you can't help him. It's not just desperate, it's frankly unedifying to witness now. The Footy Genius reminds me of a blonde, Russian, middle aged, newly divorced woman who used to drink the same pub as me 6 years ago or so back. You could see that 25+ years previously when she came to The UK as a mail order bride from the former Soviet Union, she's have been absolutely stunning and a very wise investment choice for her ex-husband's time and money - but now, after 25 years of white wine spritzers, Marlboro Lights and holidays in the Canaries/Costas/Balearics etc ............. :nono:

The sad thing was, just like The Footy Genius, she didn't realise it and she'd flirt desperately and sometimes quite outrageously after a few two many Pinot Grigios with anyone and anything in that sad way that many newly divorced middle aged women do, all to no avail. It was pitiful to watch.

After The Footy Genius's alcohol fueled Saturday night rant on here and Lincoln Imp's considerate, sympathetic response - it's similar to the time the blonde, Russian, middle aged, newly divorced woman staggered out of the pub alone and tripped over in her high heels up the road and ended up in a doorway to be assisted by some concerned passing street pastors who wanted to help and she just gave them an earful - it's all very sad how it turned out for both of them.

JC Footy Genius · Jun 4, 2019

LlcoolJ said:
It's called "desperation". JC used to be one of the more sane Brexit proponents. As he's seen it all unravel and go to cock, he's gone down the "batshit metal" route rather than the "oh, I actually got it wrong" route.

It's a difficult thing to admit that you've been fooled. Especially when you've been a massive advocate of the stuff that turns out to be the actual lies that you were fooled by. Lies that you, personally, fell for and championed. It must be a sickener.

It's human nature to keep fighting even when you've lost in that situation. However stupid it makes you look, you keep going.

I get it.

*sigh*. Brexit per se hasn't 'unravelled', what we have seen is our entire political class failing to enact the will of the people after two major democratic events where they promised to deliver and take us out of the EU. Mostly down to incompetence by the government, specifically May and her inner circle, but there has always been a vested interest for many parliamentarians and others for the leaving process to get bogged down and stall. Cock it up badly enough and hope enough people in the country change their mind or just get bored. Of course, you and many others on here will claim it was always doomed to fail but that is just biased opinion. Having someone leading who doesn't really believe in the course of action, not preparing adequately for all eventualities, calling an election and losing a majority/becoming reliant on the DUP, triggering article 50 before the governing party had a settled united position/plan, failing to reach out to MP's from other parties, all parties putting their narrow political interests first to name but a few avoidable factors that have had a significant impact on the leaving process.

Which lies did I personally fall for or champion? Specific examples, please. As usual, there is a patronising assumption that all leave voters believe everything they are told while remainers are informed and immune to being deceived. Your and most other remain supporters contributions on this thread provide comprehensive proof that isn't true. My reasons for leaving are as valid now as they were in June 2016 the failure to leave is the fault of politicians not leave voters.

WATFORD zero · Jun 4, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
i will, either sometime before or on the 31st October 2019 ...........
regards
DR

Is this your new Brexit plan, that all Brexiteers are going to leave one at a time :lolol:

Baker lite on March 29th 2019
You on October 31st 2019

If it is, could you bump JC Footy Genius up the queue a bit, as I am starting to worry about his ability to hold out much longer :thumbsup:

Hastings gull · Jun 4, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
*sigh*. Brexit per se hasn't 'unravelled', what we have seen is our entire political class failing to enact the will of the people after two major democratic events where they promised to deliver and take us out of the EU. Mostly down to incompetence by the government, specifically May and her inner circle, but there has always been a vested interest for many parliamentarians and others for the leaving process to get bogged down and stall. Cock it up badly enough and hope enough people in the country change their mind or just get bored. Of course, you and many others on here will claim it was always doomed to fail but that is just biased opinion. Having someone leading who doesn't really believe in the course of action, not preparing adequately for all eventualities, calling an election and losing a majority/becoming reliant on the DUP, triggering article 50 before the governing party had a settled united position/plan, failing to reach out to MP's from other parties, all parties putting their narrow political interests first to name but a few avoidable factors that have had a significant impact on the leaving process.

Which lies did I personally fall for or champion? Specific examples, please. As usual, there is a patronising assumption that all leave voters believe everything they are told while remainers are informed and immune to being deceived. Your and most other remain supporters contributions on this thread provide comprehensive proof that isn't true. My reasons for leaving are as valid now as they were in June 2016 the failure to leave is the fault of politicians not leave voters.

Excellent post, in contrast to what you have had to put up with, and I voted remain, albeit somewhat reluctantly, given that the EU involves another layer of politicians and bureaucrats, with the inevitable consequent corruption, waste and cronyism.

WATFORD zero · Jun 4, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
*sigh*. Brexit per se hasn't 'unravelled', what we have seen is our entire political class failing to enact the will of the people after two major democratic events where they promised to deliver and take us out of the EU. Mostly down to incompetence by the government, specifically May and her inner circle, but there has always been a vested interest for many parliamentarians and others for the leaving process to get bogged down and stall. Cock it up badly enough and hope enough people in the country change their mind or just get bored. Of course, you and many others on here will claim it was always doomed to fail but that is just biased opinion. Having someone leading who doesn't really believe in the course of action, not preparing adequately for all eventualities, calling an election and losing a majority/becoming reliant on the DUP, triggering article 50 before the governing party had a settled united position/plan, failing to reach out to MP's from other parties, all parties putting their narrow political interests first to name but a few avoidable factors that have had a significant impact on the leaving process.

Which lies did I personally fall for or champion? Specific examples, please. As usual, there is a patronising assumption that all leave voters believe everything they are told while remainers are informed and immune to being deceived. Your and most other remain supporters contributions on this thread provide comprehensive proof that isn't true. My reasons for leaving are as valid now as they were in June 2016 the failure to leave is the fault of politicians not leave voters.

I think the major flaw may have been a little earlier in the process.

'Triggering a referendum before the Leave campaign had a settled united position/plan'. Since then, the majority of MPs (who as you constantly point out back some sort of Brexit as a result of the GE etc etc) have been unable to agree amongst themselves which type of Brexit the referendum voted for.

And it appears, 3 years on, that Brexit voters and Brexit MP's still can't decide what it is they voted for.

Every time there is a chance to move forward, the ones who want a 'no deal' brexit, leaving on WTO terms and a hard border in NI, vote against the ones who want a deal and a customs union, and vice versa. If we don't know what type of Brexit 'the will of the people' is, I'm struggling to see how parliament are meant to implement it :shrug:

This is the very simple reason why Brexit hasn't happened. I can see one obvious way to find out 'the will of the people' is but my guess is that you wouldn't think it democratic, so round and round we go.

If only someone could have seen this coming :wink:

PS. Look on the bright side, at least you're getting to see lots of Sovereign Democracy in action.

Ernest · Jun 4, 2019

ChangeUK AKA Funny TINGE mob have split up, that didn't last long

pb21 · Jun 4, 2019

I see that the proposed M4 'bypass' around Newport has been shelved as the Welsh Government can’t afford it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48512697

It’s a shame that we are leaving the EU, as they have history of financing similar road projects in Wales, including the major A465 works in recent years. Maybe they could have stepped in?

https://ec.europa.eu/eipp/desktop/en/projects/project-159.html

Still, Newport voted to leave the EU and to take back control of not being able to afford things that would significantly improve their quality of life through improved air quality, reduced noise levels and reduced travelling time meaning more time spent with loved ones.

golddene · Jun 4, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Of course he is but will he admit it
regards
DR

Well, you might know the answer, Das Reich

nicko31 · Jun 4, 2019

pastafarian said:
Yep, waited years and years to get out of the EU.
Not bothered in the slightest about the extra time to complete the democratic decision to Leave.

Express readers are dying off and an educated class in moving onto the electoral register. I'd get your Brextremists to hurry up and get the deal done if I was you

How much longer are you content with waiting for Unicorns to appear over the hill?

ManOfSussex · Jun 4, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
*sigh*. Brexit per se hasn't 'unravelled', what we have seen is our entire political class failing to enact the will of the people after two major democratic events where they promised to deliver and take us out of the EU. Mostly down to incompetence by the government, specifically May and her inner circle, but there has always been a vested interest for many parliamentarians and others for the leaving process to get bogged down and stall. Cock it up badly enough and hope enough people in the country change their mind or just get bored. Of course, you and many others on here will claim it was always doomed to fail but that is just biased opinion. Having someone leading who doesn't really believe in the course of action, not preparing adequately for all eventualities, calling an election and losing a majority/becoming reliant on the DUP, triggering article 50 before the governing party had a settled united position/plan, failing to reach out to MP's from other parties, all parties putting their narrow political interests first to name but a few avoidable factors that have had a significant impact on the leaving process.

Which lies did I personally fall for or champion? Specific examples, please. As usual, there is a patronising assumption that all leave voters believe everything they are told while remainers are informed and immune to being deceived. Your and most other remain supporters contributions on this thread provide comprehensive proof that isn't true. My reasons for leaving are as valid now as they were in June 2016 the failure to leave is the fault of politicians not leave voters.

Brexit per se has just been exposed for what it always was - an illusionary fantasy, a complete farce, but you'll never admit you were sold a pup, because there's always someone else to blame - parliamentarians, May, The Government, The Civil Service, diplomats, experts, remoaners, The Government for not telling Johnny Foreigner in Brussels or the pesky Irish in Dublin more firmly that they need us more than we need them so they should know their place, like Farage and Rees-Mogg would have done, immigrants et al - always the victim, never your fault.

As I said to you before, it's no different to The Monster Raving Loony Party winning a general election and you being outraged that having voted for them that their manifesto can't be delivered as pledged. Just like The Brexit Party, they're standing in Peterborough on Thursday, but unlike The Brexit Party they actually have a manifesto and a policy* on Brexit, but unlike them The Brexit Party need to avoid details which conveniently means you and others can fall behind the eclectic assortment of nostalgic oddballs leading them and howl 'Betrayal!' alongside them at whatever happens, without them having to do anything - it means you and Anne Widdecombe will always be the victims and it'll never be your fault.

* - We will Send Noel Edmonds to negotiate Brexit because he understands Deal or No Deal. There will be no need for a backstop to the Brexit negotiations. We’ll have Alec Stewart as wicket-keeper.
https://www.loonyparty.com/about/policy-proposals/

Hastings gull · Jun 4, 2019

nicko31 said:
Express readers are dying off and an educated class in moving onto the electoral register. I'd get your Brextremists to hurry up and get the deal done if I was you

How much longer are you content with waiting for Unicorns to appear over the hill?

You are hopefully not including yourself as a member of the educated class . . .

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

Remain

Leave

Wouldn’t vote

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

We wunt be druv

Bringer of TRUTH

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Stupid IDIOT

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

We wunt be druv

Well-known member

Share this page