[Politics] Brexit

Thunder Bolt said:

Yes, because they realised that people were voting against austerity and Tory policies rather than the EU. People have changed their minds especially where the car plants are closing.

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Simster said:

In fairness, the DUP (understandably) always said their red lines were such that they want NI to be treated no differently from the rest of the UK. And this is the folly and irresponsibility of a UK government getting into bed with one side of the sectarian divide. It should never have been considered as a means of hanging onto power.

The fact is, we simply cannot just walk away without solving the Irish border issue. I'd be interested in what [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] - both happy to get into petty squabbles over the meanings of other Irish referendums and their status - hold up as solutions to this problem. I think it is interesting that [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] - previously a leaver - changed his position, in part because he concluded that it simply can't be done.

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WATFORD zero said:

I've just had a quick scan of the thread to see if anyone has put forward a new solution that hadn't been outlined before, as I know that the very idea that 'leave voters' would have to answer a binary question in order to decide which leave they want seems to render certain people completely speechless and unable to make a binary choice. (And if you can't see the irony in that ).

But unfortunately, unless I've missed it no-one has, so I'm afraid it's back to the same old binary one.

As you obviously think and want Brexit to happen, which did you want, the Customs Union one or the Hard Border one ?.

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JC Footy Genius said:

I think you are mistaken I haven't squabbled over meanings of other Irish referendums and their status, have I? The Irish border issue has been weaponised to apply pressure during the negotiations in my view. The supposed only choices are customs union or hard border but both sides have said at one point or another that there will be no hard border under any circumstances. Has to be a customs union then? Mmmmmm ... After two years of posturing and dismissing UK suggestions about finding alternative solutions and with the threat of no deal looming, suddenly the EU and the Irish began to suggest they can perhaps find alternatives to setting up a hard border (see links). Just one reason why keeping no deal on the table was so important as it applies real pressure. It's also unreasonable to expect anyone to come up with definitive border solutions until we have established our new trading relationship with the EU. It was the EU that refused to discuss this until we left. If they think they can find alternative solutions to avoid a hard border that may not be perfect but deal with the worst case no deal scenario I think it likely solutions can be found after we agree a mutually beneficial trade deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47816500

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...id-hard-border-will-need-more-staff-1.3853732

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Weststander said:

I’ve always (well, when I’ve rarely thought about it) considered myself both British and English. Probably only patriotically English during a international football or rugby union match. I’d always considered the likes of Aneurin Bevan, Lloyd George, Mary Peters, George Best, Sean Connery, Ally McCoist, Gordon Brown, GB Olympic teams, etc, etc, .... as simply fellow Brits and countrymen.

The growing schism is a very recent thing, initially a result of the divisiveness of the likes of the SNP, it’s their raison d'etre. ‘Big brother’ next door, England, was for a while a rudderless nation without a clear identity, something Paxman identified in his 1998 text. St George’s Day barely noticed, unlike the other three.

The English are now far less embarrassed in being proud of our/their Englishness.

Unfortunately, right wing extremism, thuggery, racism, xenophobia has rode on the back of that. Just look at the amount of racism and Islamophobia from certain football fans in the last 7 days alone.

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Green Cross Code Man said:

Some of that is undoubtedly true but some of it patently isn't.

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albion68 said:

I have got one for you an Economist on TV the other day said a lot of EU countries are going in to recession soon ,was she telling the truth ,yes or no .

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JC Footy Genius said:

I think you are mistaken I haven't squabbled over meanings of other Irish referendums and their status, have I? The Irish border issue has been weaponised to apply pressure during the negotiations in my view. The supposed only choices are customs union or hard border but both sides have said at one point or another that there will be no hard border under any circumstances. Has to be a customs union then? Mmmmmm ... After two years of posturing and dismissing UK suggestions about finding alternative solutions and with the threat of no deal looming, suddenly the EU and the Irish began to suggest they can perhaps find alternatives to setting up a hard border (see links). Just one reason why keeping no deal on the table was so important as it applies real pressure. It's also unreasonable to expect anyone to come up with definitive border solutions until we have established our new trading relationship with the EU. It was the EU that refused to discuss this until we left. If they think they can find alternative solutions to avoid a hard border that may not be perfect but deal with the worst case no deal scenario I think it likely solutions can be found after we agree a mutually beneficial trade deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47816500

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...id-hard-border-will-need-more-staff-1.3853732

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Weststander said:

This. The overwhelming reason given by Brexiteers was too much immigration (not my opinion and I voted remain).

That feeling had been brewing for many years in Wales, Northern England and the Midlands. Remember the old lady in Lancs clashing with PM Gordon Brown?

It had little to do with people being sad over the the later Coalition.

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ManOfSussex said:

I can't argue with any of that.

As a Sussex lad (I'm in my 40's now) born in Hastings who ended up living in Africa, marrying an African national, fathering a son who was mixed raced and entitled to dual citizenship, living among people who used to respect this country and what it was about - I genuinely don't know who I am anymore. I'm damn sure I'm not English though. This mess is not the country I'm from.

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Weststander said:

When on holiday in the UK or elsewhere as a kid or an adult, I never thought any differently of Scots, Ulster-men and the Welsh, from say Geordies, Cockneys, Scousers, Mancs, Carrot-Crunchers or Brummies. Just people from another part of OUR interesting country, each with a different accent.

The recent divide between the 4 nations is a shame. Respected ex Labour ministers such as Murphy and Darling often said that the SNP operate the politics of division and discord. It worked.

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ManOfSussex said:

Freshwater East as a toddler for the royal wedding of '81 - I've got pictures to prove it of me.

I find the division of this union since an utter shame.

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WATFORD zero said:

Well, seeing as I (and I suspect you) have no idea what or who you are talking about, I think I a considered answer may need a little more detail

And I'm sorry but given the opportunity to interact with yourself or a bit of chicken on a plate, I feel the latter may offer more of a challenge

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albion68 said:

It was a remark in a conversation with experts , on a political programme BBC i think ,made me wonder if this true or not ,basically Countries in the EU are not doing very well at the moment in fact its been said Germany is going in to recession or is this all rubbish ?

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WATFORD zero said:

I've just had a quick scan of the thread to see if anyone has put forward a new solution that hadn't been outlined before, as I know that the very idea that 'leave voters' would have to answer a binary question in order to decide which leave they want seems to render certain people completely speechless and unable to make a binary choice. (And if you can't see the irony in that ).

But unfortunately, unless I've missed it no-one has, so I'm afraid it's back to the same old binary one.

As you obviously think and want Brexit to happen, which did you want, the Customs Union one or the Hard Border one ?.

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nicko31 said:

They wamt neither, just a unicorn.

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ManOfSussex said:

I see the sister of the Honrouble Member for the 18th century is standing as an MEP for Farage's Brexit Party.

Annunziata Rees-Mogg - that sounds like something you'd catch off uncooked poultry in southern Africa.

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Boris Johnson was wrong to claim there was polling evidence that a no-deal Brexit was the public's preferred option, the press regulator has ruled.

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Green Cross Code Man said:

That joke just gets funnier and funnier the more one hears it.

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