[Politics] Brexit

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
After two years of Brexit deadlock, intransigence and a seven-hour cabinet meeting, the best the prime minister can do is invite the leader of the British Labour party to become the co-owner of her Brexit failure. Let me ask her, had she been the leader of the opposition, and invited into a trap like this, would she have been foolish enough to accept? - Stewart Hosie, SNP, Dundee East at PMQ's.

What’s it got to do with Stewart Hosie, just another SNP shit stirrer? No one on NSC used to quote the SNP as paragons of virtue. Remember, their hypocritical raison d’etre is TO BREAK UP POLITICAL UNIONS.

Let Corbyn and May decide the next step, not a bunch of Scots thriving on Westminster’s divisions.

nicko31 · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
What’s it got to do with Stewart Hosie, just another SNP shit stirrer? No one on NSC used to quote the SNP as paragons of virtue. Remember, their hypocritical raison d’etre is TO BREAK UP POLITICAL UNIONS.

Let Corbyn and May decide the next step, not a bunch of Scots thriving on Westminster’s divisions.

The Scots and the Welsh should be allowed in the room as well. If you exclude them it will only provide fuel to break up the union. 2 out of 2 countries voted Brexit, its a decision for the United Kingdom, not just England

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
There will never be a hard Brexit.

There will be if Macron and Grybauskaite insist on it at the end of next week.

It'd only last for 3 weeks until, on our knees, we agree to The EU's terms if it happened.

pastafarian · Apr 3, 2019

Baldseagull said:
Do you really think that there would be no case for a ratification referendum on a rejoin vote, if rejoining the EU was sold as simple to do, could have the rebate, could keep sterling, would not be part of Schengen, voluntary only participation in EU defence forces, and then it became apparent that none of that was true?

There shouldnt be.
I am assuming of course what i thought would be the obvious natural process.
A pro rejoin party, if they won an election would stand on a ticket of submitting an application to join the EU. Negotiating terms of joining would then be concluded and this would then be put to the vote. You would know before voting about schengen, the euro etc.
Worth bearing in mind before the usual protests it is entirely possible to negotiate terms of joining before deciding to join but you cant negotiate terms of leaving until you have decided to leave.

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
What’s it got to do with Stewart Hosie, just another SNP shit stirrer? No one on NSC used to quote the SNP as paragons of virtue. Remember, their hypocritical raison d’etre is TO BREAK UP POLITICAL UNIONS.

Let Corbyn and May decide the next step, not a bunch of Scots thriving on Westminster’s divisions.

With condescending English attitudes like that about them, I really can't blame them anymore.

pastafarian · Apr 3, 2019

nicko31 said:
English is your first language isn't it? Would you mind just rewriting your sentence. Read it 5 times and can't fathom out what you are trying to ask.......

Maybe the mind-boggling hypocrisy of those MPs that currently reject the deal but would approve it, if a second referendum was guaranteed as a condition of accepting it, has confused you.

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
With condescending English attitudes like that about them, I really can't blame them anymore.

SNP - specialists in breaking political unions.

But now the faux buddy of the odd NSC’er hoping that Corbyn and May can’t work together.

Sounds very much like NOT wanting a solution that put’s the country first.

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
There will be if Macron and Grybauskaite insist on it at the end of next week.

It'd only last for 3 weeks until, on our knees, we agree to The EU's terms if it happened.

Let’s have a charity bet for REMF then?

Merkel and german business, will do all they can to ensure there is no hard Brexit, which would be very damaging for the powerhouse of Europe. Since when has Macron been the deciding factor ... his thugs are too busy clubbing protestors.

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
SNP - specialists in breaking political unions.

But now the faux buddy of the odd NSC’er hoping that Corbyn and May can’t work together.

Sounds very much like NOT wanting a solution that put’s the country first.

It was probably the best question at PMQ's today.

I appreciate he's just a Scottish separatist rabble rouser and should really know his place, but the views of the member for Dundee East seem to be shared by members of Corbyn's own party too.

Stat Brother · Apr 3, 2019

Imagine if the actual leader of the opposition stood up and said this any time over the last 3 years:-

[tweet]1112761444012118016[/tweet]

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
Let’s have a charity bet for REMF then?

Merkel and german business, will do all they can to ensure there is no hard Brexit, which would be very damaging for the powerhouse of Europe. Since when has Macron been the deciding factor ... his thugs are too busy clubbing protestors.

The old German car manufacturers/they need us more than we need them line. Okay.

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
But haven't the EU said, if this May deadline is going to happen, that the WA will NOT be reopened?

Or have I lost track of this shitshow?

Lots of politicians have said lots of things - that doesn't make them fact. If our politicians agree on some sort of soft Brexit, and go to the EU with that or No Deal, the EU will agree to the soft Brexit. We won't need backstops, because it would be a soft Brexit with no need for an Irish border.

Triggaaar · Apr 3, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
Actually it's written by an MP with an agenda (that she sticks to).

That one piece was, but she's not the only one claiming that it's a trap for Corbyn - I'm referring to this claim that's been made by several in the media.

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
It was probably the best question at PMQ's today.

I appreciate he's just a Scottish separatist rabble rouser and should really know his place, but the views of the member for Dundee East seem to be shared by members of Corbyn's own party too.

Do you hope that Corbyn, May and the majority of the Commons can reach a deal? I do. Simply so that we can move on.

There will be three groupings that won’t sign up to that in the Commons, but I hope their numbers end up being a clear minority out of the 650:
a) The hard Brexiteers such as wknr Duncan-Smith.
b) SNP hypocrites.
c) The hard Remainers across several parties, who want things the way they are/were.

For the national interest, I hope the compromisers have the numbers.

hans kraay fan club · Apr 3, 2019

pastafarian said:
Maybe the mind-boggling hypocrisy of those MPs that currently reject the deal but would approve it, if a second referendum was guaranteed as a condition of accepting it, has confused you.

It's confused me, that you can't understand why it is not hypocrisy at all.

If an MP holds the view that May's deal does not represent anything close to the genuine wishes of the public, then they'd be well within their rights to vote it down. Agree so far?

If in that MP's opinion the deal actually IS palatable, apart from the 'wishes of the public' bit, then accepting on condition the public were given the chance to confirm it meets their approval, would be ENTIRELY justifiable.

I'll wait for your explanation why I'm wrong.

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
The old German car manufacturers/they need us more than we need them line. Okay.

No, you’ve wrongly jumped to the conclusion that I’m a Brexiteer (as they’re the only people who churn out that precise line, with an angle).

I’m a Remainer, who wants to see a compromise to end this damaging deadlock.

Germany holds the real power in Europe, always has done, I’m fine with that. Friends of the UK according to Katya Adler, along with the Dutch and some Scandinavian nations.

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
Do you hope that Corbyn, May and the majority of the Commons can reach a deal? I do. Simply so that we can move on.

There will be three groupings that won’t sign up to that in the Commons, but I hope their numbers end up being a clear minority out of the 650:
a) The hard Brexiteers such as wknr Duncan-Smith.
b) SNP hypocrites.
c) The hard Remainers across several parties, who want things the way they are/were.

For the national interest, I hope the compromisers have the numbers.

It depends on what, or rather if, a compromise is reached at all and what guarantees can be put in place in regards to the FPD now to safeguard them from being reneged on by whatever, right wing, Brexit backing Toff replaces May. As a unionist it needs to be a UK wide settlement too and the concerns of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast need to be factored into that.

I'm very sceptical that a deal can be reached though. I can't see what a general election would solve and the possibility of a further vote on this (and that won't be pretty) seems to be rising to me as the only way out.

ManOfSussex · Apr 3, 2019

Weststander said:
No, you’ve wrongly jumped to the conclusion that I’m a Brexiteer (as they’re the only people who churn out that precise line, with an angle).

I’m a Remainer, who wants to see a compromise to end this damaging deadlock.

Germany holds the real power in Europe, always has done, I’m fine with that. Friends of the UK according to Katya Adler, along with the Dutch and some Scandinavian nations.

I knew you didn't vote leave. It's just that your remarks on the German economy as being why The EU will keep holding out for us are right out of the 'Leave book of Brexit quotes' though.

Their exasperation at our procrastination has a breaking point. This purgatory can't go on for ever. Revoke and remain or see you in 3 weeks time after your self inflicted no deal experiment, is going to happen sooner or later.

nicko31 · Apr 3, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Imagine if the actual leader of the opposition stood up and said this any time over the last 3 years:-

[tweet]1112761444012118016[/tweet]

David Lammy take a bow, Brexit destroyed in 120 seconds.

This is what Theresa May should be now telling us, THE TRUTH

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
It depends on what, or rather if, a compromise is reached at all and what guarantees can be put in place in regards to the FPD now to safeguard them from being reneged on by whatever, right wing, Brexit backing Toff replaces May. As a unionist it needs to be a UK wide settlement too and the concerns of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast need to factored into that.

I'm very sceptical that a deal can be reached though. I can't see what a general election would solve and the possibility of a further vote on this (and that won;t be pretty) seems to be rising to me as the only way out.

I’m only sceptical because Corbyn (listening to Starmer and other advisors) may play the GE long game, putting a spanner in the works to kill this. I hope May and Corbyn can bury that bull.

I truly believe that May has deliberately stuffed the Tory hard brexiteers over this, so that even if one of them becomes PM, they will not be able to reverse what Corbyn/May/Commons agree. You can tell this by the barely veiled anger on Duncan-Smith’s face this lunchtime. This is not a trap for Labour, IMO.

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