[Politics] Brexit

Maldini · May 6, 2016

I can't just imagine Europe in 30/50 years.A bunch of countries merged into one.
We all lose our identities,our cultures,traditions and become one large boring superstate.

I want every country to retain their identities because this is what makes the world unique.

We go on holiday partly to experience different cultures etc however much of this will be lost.

What a shame.

larus · May 6, 2016

Irish_Seagull said:
England began its union with Scotland, Ireland and Wales by the sword, and occupied in a manner no different than Hitlers Rheich

Mussolini did no different than the Brit elite did around the world, the same goes for Franco

If Mussolini was that bad we wouldn't live in an England heavily influenced by corporatism

The U.K. Democracy is a bit weak when most parties have been caught committing fraud at the ballet box, destroying evidence relating to an unknown number of parliamentarian child rapists, illegal wars, funding of terrorists, setting up coups in various places, starting proxy many wars.

At least in other countries people are far less deluded when it comes to recognising how corrupt their system is

A million marched against the first Iraq war, your mr Blair went to war. Cameron was elected on a promise of "change" lol.

The U.K. Is not a democracy.

If you vote to stay within the EU it just speeds things up a bit

Welcome to the real world. All politicians are in it for themselves - surprise. If you think that the average person really believes that politicians are caring, compassionate, altruistic individuals then you'd be wrong (IMO). The politicians in the EU are worse. Christ, this is the organisation which has NEVER had it's accounts signed off, yet you quote UK corruption.

If you want to talk about how the Union was formed, then why stop there. Why not go back to the Normans, the Romans, the Spanish decimating cultures when they explored, the Portugese, the Roman Empire. Yes, ludicrous, but you're saying that the democracy we have is failed and that somehow the current democratic structure is bad because of how it came about.

Look around the world at please advise which countries are democratic and free from corruption. Power corrupts - like it or not, but it's a sad fact.

GT49er · May 6, 2016

Irish_Seagull said:
England began its union with Scotland, Ireland and Wales by the sword, and occupied in a manner no different than Hitlers Rheich

England began its union with Scotland by inviting the King of Scotland (James VI) to become King of England (James I) as well, and rule over both kingdoms. So that's the first part of your argument blown out of the water.

The rest of it is pretty crap too. Have a bit of shamrock with that chip!

Bladders · May 6, 2016

Plus the Jocks were broke, so they had no choice.

beorhthelm · May 6, 2016

Irish_Seagull said:
...At least in other countries people are far less deluded when it comes to recognising how corrupt their system is

stay in the EU because European corruption is more upfront? well that's convinced me ...

5ways · May 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
Agree with much of your post but Cameron was told in no uncertain terms that freedom of movement was non negotiable by Germany they would rather see us leave which is why he ended up with a deal which makes virtually no difference to immigration. There is no realistic chance of restricting EU immigration in the future.. Albania, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey are all in the queue to join. As you point out many more will be attracted by the higher wages here, immigration will rise inexorably, their countries will have a diminishing tax base, be more reliant on EU handouts meaning ever greater costs to the few member states who are net contributors ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-David-Cameron-insists-on-migrant-quotas.html

Turkey is really a million miles away from joining the EU. I can see why Outers want to keep hammering on this but it's simply not going to happen.

JC Footy Genius · May 6, 2016

5ways said:
Turkey is really a million miles away from joining the EU. I can see why Outers want to keep hammering on this but it's simply not going to happen.

€4.5 Billion Euros spent in the next few years helping Turkey reach the required entry standards says you're wrong ... decade tops.

heathgate · May 6, 2016

So looking at this poll,... not very representative of the country as a whole, and represented by quite a few who have vested interests and live in continental EU regions,... its close,... and this area is largely a leafy region relatively unmarked by the inner city depreivations and intensive living.... so on June 23rd?... I think a 1 point win either way.

Herr Tubthumper · May 6, 2016

5ways said:
Turkey is really a million miles away from joining the EU. I can see why Outers want to keep hammering on this but it's simply not going to happen.

Quite. They've even said they're not joining themselves.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36229468

Lincoln Imp · May 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
€4.5 Billion Euros spent in the next few years helping Turkey reach the required entry standards says you're wrong ... decade tops.

Better persuade a few million Frenchmen then - they're dead against Turkey joining and have been promised a referendum before it can happen.

JC Footy Genius · May 6, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Better persuade a few million Frenchmen then - they're dead against Turkey joining and have been promised a referendum before it can happen.

When have the opinions of a few million EU citizens ever stopped the EU getting what it wants . Ditto referendum's. The usual forces will align to scare/persuade (see current referendum debate) Name me one country on the path to EU membership which has failed to gain entry?

5ways · May 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
€4.5 Billion Euros spent in the next few years helping Turkey reach the required entry standards says you're wrong ... decade tops.

They began the process of joining in 1987. They needed to complete 35 chapters of reforms to actually join and have completed one - in something related to scientific research I think. Even if they somehow rush 34 massive set of reforms through in 10 years (not going to happen) every EU country gets a veto. That 4.5 Euros is a pay-off to stem the flow of refugees. Do I like it? no. Does anyone in Europe like it? no. Is it necessary? I think so.

5ways · May 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
When have the opinions of a few million EU citizens ever stopped the EU getting what it wants . Ditto referendum's. The usual forces will align to scare/persuade (see current referendum debate) Name me one country on the path to EU membership which has failed to gain entry?

Turkey springs to mind.

sir albion · May 6, 2016

The EU corporation is growing all the time and countries that are not even in Europe will be joining in years to come that I'm sure of...they have an agenda that's for sure.

JC Footy Genius · May 6, 2016

5ways said:
They began the process of joining in 1987. They needed to complete 35 chapters of reforms to actually join and have completed one - in something related to scientific research I think. Even if they somehow rush 34 massive set of reforms through in 10 years (not going to happen) every EU country gets a veto. That 4.5 Euros is a pay-off to stem the flow of refugees. Do I like it? no. Does anyone in Europe like it? no. Is it necessary? I think so.

That 4.5 Billion is nothing to do with the migrant crisis it is to do with helping Turkey meet the required EU entry criteria. There is an additional 3 billion been promised for the migrant crisis. We are certainly chucking a lot of dosh at a country with no realistic chance of joining ..

Two Professors · May 6, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
Quite. They've even said they're not joining themselves.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36229468

If you believe a word Erdogan says,that just re-enforces my opinion that you are living on a different planet.

Lincoln Imp · May 6, 2016

heathgate said:
So looking at this poll,... not very representative of the country as a whole, and represented by quite a few who have vested interests and live in continental EU regions,... its close,... and this area is largely a leafy region relatively unmarked by the inner city depreivations and intensive living.... so on June 23rd?... I think a 1 point win either way.

Your prediction may be right but your reasoning isn't - the regions where people most say they are concerned about immigration (ie that vote UKIP) tend in general to be the regions with the fewest immigrants.

Lincoln Imp · May 6, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
When have the opinions of a few million EU citizens ever stopped the EU getting what it wants . Ditto referendum's. The usual forces will align to scare/persuade (see current referendum debate) Name me one country on the path to EU membership which has failed to gain entry?

So just to get this right, you're saying that dark forces will align to force the French to vote in favour of Turkish entry should Turkey ever be in a position to qualify? Presumably you're also saying that the same forces will cause all other EU nations to support Turkish entry? This reminds me of the Brexiter on here who claimed that if Remain won the referendum it would simply prove that the forces of evil had rigged it. We seem to be spinning off into a parallel universe here.

Herr Tubthumper · May 6, 2016

Two Professors said:
If you believe a word Erdogan says,that just re-enforces my opinion that you are living on a different planet.

Given a choice of who I believe when it comes to Turkey, I'd go with their leader over a random person on a random football chat room more often than not. Please don't take this personally.

JC Footy Genius · May 6, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
So just to get this right, you're saying that dark forces will align to force the French to vote in favour of Turkish entry should Turkey ever be in a position to qualify? Presumably you're also saying that the same forces will cause all other EU nations to support Turkish entry? This reminds me of the Brexiter on here who claimed that if Remain won the referendum it would simply prove that the forces of evil had rigged it. We seem to be spinning off into a parallel universe here.

I'm saying the EU will get it's way come what may (!) .. see Denmark 1992/93 referendums, Ireland 2008/9 referendums, Greece 2015 referendum. If you want to categorize the European establishment as dark forces/forces of evil go ahead, it doesn't change the underlying point/truth.

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