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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,809
Titanic said:
The UK and EU agree terms for Brexit transition period

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43456502

he UK and EU have agreed on a "large part" of the agreement that will lead to the "orderly withdrawal" of the UK.
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So 3 months short of 2 years on from the Brexit vote, nobody still knows what they voted for, but we have nearly agreed (NI border aside ??? ) the first extension of our EU membership.

And who says there has been no progress made




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tock indeed :lolol:
 
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Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,538
Pretty pink fairy said:
poor effort at trying to save face , has it sunk in yet:)
regards
DR
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:ffsparr:

You wanna take a look at the finer details old son.

You may not be quite so happy.

As indeed some of the Tory backbenchers won't.
 






pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Titanic said:
The UK and EU agree terms for Brexit transition period

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43456502

he UK and EU have agreed on a "large part" of the agreement that will lead to the "orderly withdrawal" of the UK.

The EU's Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said the two sides had agreed on a transition period, calling the announcement a "decisive step".

He spoke after meeting with the UK's Brexit secretary David Davis.

The transitional period will begin from Brexit day - 29 March, 2019 - and is designed to smooth the path to the future permanent relationship.

Mr Barnier said there was also an agreement on the rights of 4.5m EU citizens in the UK and the 1.2m UK citizens in the EU after Brexit.

But he said more work still needed to be done on important subjects including the Northern Ireland border.

Both the UK and the EU hope the terms of an agreement on the transitional period can be signed off by Theresa May's fellow leaders at the EU summit this week.

Mr Barnier said the new draft legal text marks a "decisive step" but added that it was "not the end of the road".

"We have reached an agreement on the transition period," Mr Barnier told a press conference in Brussels. "The transition will be of limited duration."

Mr Davis said the move provided further certainty for businesses and had agreed safeguards for fishing quotas during the transition period.

Among other issues the two sides have had to negotiate for the transition period have been what role the European Court of Justice has in the UK, whether the UK can negotiate future trade deals with non-EU countries as well as the continuing issues of Gibraltar post-Brexit.

BBC Europe Editor Katya Adler said the issues of the Northern Ireland border and Gibraltar have the potential "to bring the whole Brexit deal down".

Adrian O'Neill, Ireland's ambassador to the UK, says it is crucial both sides make progress on the border issue, while Gibraltar's chief minister Fabian Picardo has expressed confidence that it will be included in the planned Brexit transition deal.

The UK and EU hope that if a transition deal is agreed negotiations can focus on what sort of permanent future relationship the UK and EU will have - with the aim of a deal being agreed in the autumn to allow time for EU member states and the UK Parliament to ratify it before Brexit next March.
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Another bad day at the office for the "Brexit wont happen" brigade.
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,294
pastafarian said:
Another bad day at the office for the "Brexit wont happen" brigade.
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Among other issues the two sides have had to negotiate for the transition period have been what role the European Court of Justice has in the UK...
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Interesting that the UK presumably doesn't have a red line RE. what role the European Court of Justice has in the UK post Brexit, otherwise there wouldn't be anything to negotiate with respect to this.

Presumably the European Court of Justice will have some role in the UK post Brexit, in which case we wont actually have left?
 




pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
On the racism issue:

1. I am totally sympathetic to the Leavers who are offended by this generalised slur where and whenever it occurs.
2. Were this directed at a given person then I think it would be actionable.
3. But whilst it would be stupid, offensive and totally wrong to characterise 100% of the Leave vote as an expression of racism perhaps it is likely that 100% (or as near as dammit) of racists did vote to Leave?
4. Furthermore there were many more who for whom 'take back control' was a proxy for xenophobia.

Of course I can't convincingly quantify 3 and 4: maybe it was just a few hundred or maybe it was a few million.
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Im not convinced anybody is actually offended by being labelled racist, its a label that when used simply shows the person using it has run out of ideas and is not quite intelligent enough to engage in reasoned debate.Its more of a frustration against lazy stereotyping than offence.Likewise its a bit lazy to stereotype 100% of racists probably voted Leave, most of the country by now is fully aware of the racist problem of anti-semitism held amongst the ranks of the Labour party and a cursory glance at statistics will show anyone Labour supporters played a large part in voting to remain, as of course they did to vote Leave, but it would be a desperate silly sausage kind of person who would claim all anti semites voted Leave.There was indeed a court case recently of a guy that was individually accused of being racist, i believe he received damages, this shouldnt concern any individual on here though as being far more intelligent than everyone else is a rock solid stance against anything actionable.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
pb21 said:
Interesting that the UK presumably doesn't have a red line RE. what role the European Court of Justice has in the UK post Brexit, otherwise there wouldn't be anything to negotiate with respect to this.

Presumably the European Court of Justice will have some role in the UK post Brexit, in which case we wont actually have left?
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Good to see at least you were paying attention on what was voted for.
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,294
pastafarian said:
Good to see at least you were paying attention on what was voted for.
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So how can Brexiters, such as Mogg, be happy if the European Court of Justice has a role in UK post Brexit, and will we actually have left the EU if the ECJ still has jurisdiction in the UK?
 




pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
pb21 said:
So how can Brexiters, such as Mogg, be happy if the European Court of Justice has a role in UK post Brexit, and will we actually have left the EU if the ECJ still has jurisdiction in the UK?
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Some people need to learn the difference between Jurisprudence of the European Court of Justice and jurisdiction
 








pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,294
pastafarian said:
Not in the way some on here are hoping it will
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It doesn't really matter what people on here hope.

IMO the idea of remaining under ECJ jurisdiction (to some varying extent), will not sit well with the likes of Mogg, and what they are hoping for does matter.

This was supposedly one of motivators (if not the main), for voting out and they aren't getting what they hoped for.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Herr Tubthumper said:
Quite. Especially given the British government are now grovelling to the EU to help them against Russia. What the **** have these murders on British soil got to do with the EU? Not their problem Russia now see you as a weakened nation. You won, get over it.
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Not a EU problem? Grovelling?
You must be horrified at The EU press statement of solidarity with the UK on this international security matter.

“The European Union is shocked at the offensive use of any military-grade nerve agent, of a type developed by Russia, for the first time on European soil in over 70 years.The use of chemical weapons by anyone under any circumstances is completely unacceptable and constitutes a security threat to us all”

“The European Union expresses its unqualified solidarity with the UK and its support, including for the UK’s efforts to bring those responsible for this crime to justice.”

“The EU will remain closely focussed on this issue and its implications”

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...eign-affairs-council-on-the-salisbury-attack/
 




pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
pb21 said:
It doesn't really matter what people on here hope.

IMO the idea of remaining under ECJ jurisdiction (to some varying extent), will not sit well with the likes of Mogg, and what they are hoping for does matter.

This was supposedly one of motivators (if not the main), for voting out and they aren't getting what they hoped for.
Click to expand...

"The second hard fact is that even after we have left the jurisdiction of the ECJ, EU law and the decisions of the ECJ will continue to affect us. For a start, the ECJ determines whether agreements the EU has struck are legal under the EU’s own law – as the US found when the ECJ declared the Safe Harbor Framework for data sharing invalid. When we leave the EU, the Withdrawal Bill will bring EU law into UK law. That means cases will be determined in our courts. But, where appropriate, our courts will continue to look at the ECJ’s judgments, as they do for the appropriate jurisprudence of other countries’ courts.
And if, as part of our future partnership, Parliament passes an identical law to an EU law, it may make sense for our courts to look at the appropriate ECJ judgments so that we both interpret those laws consistently. As I said in Munich, if we agree that the UK should continue to participate in an EU agency the UK would have to respect the remit of the ECJ in that regard.
But, in the future, the EU treaties and hence EU law will no longer apply in the UK. The agreement we reach must therefore respect the sovereignty of both the UK and the EU’s legal orders. That means the jurisdiction of the ECJ in the UK must end. It also means that the ultimate arbiter of disputes about our future partnership cannot be the court of either party."
Mansion House 2nd March

I see nothing of concern in that speech. Moggy himself said "it delivered on the government's promise to take the UK out of the customs union, the single market and the European Court of Justice"
 




nigeyb

nigeyb

Active member
Oct 14, 2005
352
Hove
JACOB REES MOGG: “Any attempts to delay leaving the EU to minimise ruinous financial impact is just a plot to thwart Brexit. Citizens concerned about loss of income should either dip into their trust funds, auction off parts of their estate or put their living costs on expenses.”
 




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