[Politics] Brexit

The Clamp · Jul 16, 2018

"If someone in England has sold a photocopier to someone in France we will make sure they have the freedom to go to France and service that photocopier"

This is teh woman leading us out of the EU. What the actual ****?! It's genuinely worrying.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 16, 2018

The Clamp said:
The Leave voters reaction to this utter shambles is predictable, idiotic and, I'd like to say naive but I think we all know they are not naive on this count, they know full well they have ****ed up big time. Unfortunately for themselves and the country as a whole they do not have the character or mental fortitude to admit when they are wrong. A trait that they display on all topics, not just Brexit. I feel sorry for them.

Is not admitting we're wrong similar to being caught out using dual accounts, denying it and then when proven not admitting you're a liar ?

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Is not admitting we're wrong similar to being caught out using dual accounts, denying it and then when proven not admitting you're a liar ?

ps i would vote to leave again, and again and again.
I dont care that i am a hypocrite for being a tory voter agreeing with socialists that parliament must regain the primacy it lost

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 16, 2018

The Clamp said:
"If someone in England has sold a photocopier to someone in France we will make sure they have the freedom to go to France and service that photocopier"

This is teh woman leading us out of the EU. What the actual ****?! It's genuinely worrying.

Yes - wasn't the most convincing response. There is a certain element of 'making it up as we go along': that the White Paper was cobbled together behind the back of the Davis version (which doubtless was also cobbled together) doesn't inspire confidence - either for Leavers or Remainers. Also 'TM the PM' kept referring to it as 'the deal'. I believe that a deal has to be agreed by both sides and I can imagine many holes being picked in this by the EU negotiators. Meanwhile Boris is at it again with another rant...………………..

nicko31 · Jul 16, 2018

Greening calls for final 3 way 2nd referendum vote based on a preference system. Another battle line opens in the Tory civil war

We in state of complete paralysis, Brexit has consumed pretty much everything in parliament. May is trying to deliver the undeliverable. She knows its a fudge that pleases no one, but has little choice

The Brexiteers lied, made Brexit sounds too simplistic and took advantage of a poorly informed public.

Answers on a postcard....

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Yes - wasn't the most convincing response. .

this is interesting you question this
It was a question about the specifics of the mobility clause as freedom of movement ends.
What wasnt convincing that this applies (or is hoped to apply via reciprocity) to service workers.
What were you confused about?

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 16, 2018

pastafarian said:
this is interesting you question this
It was a question about the specifics of the mobility clause as freedom of movement ends.
What wasnt convincing that this applies (or is hoped to apply via reciprocity) to service workers.
What were you confused about?

Fair point: I am duly corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to have the PM so well briefed on the details. I suppose I'll just bounce the question back to you: are you convinced by the White Paper? There seem to be rather few who are but perhaps you are one of them? I'd be interested to know.

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

nicko31 said:
We in state of complete paralysis, Brexit has consumed pretty much everything in parliament.
.

80% of the withdrawal agreement agreed so hardly paralysed,shit load of bills non brexit related going on in the parliamentary process
https://services.parliament.uk/bills/

did you seriously think it wasnt possible to look up and see you were talking bollocks?

Mo Gosfield · Jul 16, 2018

The Clamp said:
The Leave voters reaction to this utter shambles is predictable, idiotic and, I'd like to say naive but I think we all know they are not naive on this count, they know full well they have ****ed up big time. Unfortunately for themselves and the country as a whole they do not have the character or mental fortitude to admit when they are wrong. A trait that they display on all topics, not just Brexit. I feel sorry for them.

The majority of Leave voters feel frustrated that the negotiations have been left in the hands of a pro-Remain PM, who quite frankly, has singularly failed in her duty to respect the majority decision of the electorate. This situation has been stage-managed by key members of the Conservative party, who knew her limitations and knew that Brexit would start to flounder under her indecisive leadership and have fanned the flames.
She couldn't make up her mind before the referendum, which horse to back. She was getting conflicting advice. Finally, just days before polling, she decided to back the Remain campaign and tow the party line. As soon as she became PM, the soundbites started. Hollow and meaningless. Weak leadership and political conniving has created this situation, not the 17.4 m idiots who voted Leave.

ManOfSussex · Jul 16, 2018

nicko31 said:
Greening calls for final 3 way 2nd referendum vote based on a preference system. Another battle line opens in the Tory civil war

We in state of complete paralysis, Brexit has consumed pretty much everything in parliament. May is trying to deliver the undeliverable. She knows its a fudge that pleases no one, but has little choice

The Brexiteers lied, made Brexit sounds too simplistic and took advantage of a poorly informed public.

Answers on a postcard....

Gary Neville summed it quite well yesterday too.

[tweet]1018550723305459713[/tweet]

pb21 · Jul 16, 2018

pastafarian said:
80% of the withdrawal agreement agreed so hardly paralysed,shit load of bills non brexit related going on in the parliamentary process
https://services.parliament.uk/bills/

did you seriously think it wasnt possible to look up and see you were talking bollocks?

Whilst Parliament appears to be in full flow, I cant imagine that Brexit isn't having a negative effect on normal Government procedure.

In fact, as you bring it up, how do you explain so many Bills being discussed when supposedly the EU has us over a barrel and prevents us running our country how we want to?

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Fair point: I am duly corrected. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to have the PM so well briefed on the details. I suppose I'll just bounce the question back to you: are you convinced by the White Paper? There seem to be rather few who are but perhaps you are one of them? I'd be interested to know.

Its good to see remainers accept they are wrong, doesnt happen often on here

On ending freedom of movement yes it delivers
On stopping the primacy of the ECJ yes it delivers
On leaving the customs union and allowing us to be free to make our own trade deals yes it delivers
On quitting being members of the single market yes it delivers
On a new free trade agreement to replace the single market yes it delivers(on its framework)
Not sucked in to a Norway model yes it delivers

The sticking point is the common rule book on cross border goods, i would want to see more evidence on what the punishments are if parliament after regaining these powers refuses further legislation.
Seems to me this sticking point of cross border goods can be resolved on the uk front if May stuck to the premise
of the Mansion House speech that regulations post brexit could have the same results as EU law but not have to be identical outcomes.i,e, mutual recognition.
Mutual recognition on goods seems to be out of favour, perhaps parliamentary votes as favoured by Mogg and co will push this back this week as further legislation of leaving goes through parliament this week

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

pb21 said:
Whilst Parliament appears to be in full flow, I cant imagine that Brexit isn't having a negative effect on normal Government procedure.

In fact, as you bring it up, how do you explain so many Bills being discussed when supposedly the EU has us over a barrel and prevents us running our country how we want to?

who has ever said the EU has us over a barrel and prevents us running our country how we want to?
Do you have sources for people saying this?
Are you sure you are not confusing the EU`s ability to pass laws without parliamentary approval in certain areas with our ability to maintain governance

The Clamp · Jul 16, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Is not admitting we're wrong similar to being caught out using dual accounts, denying it and then when proven not admitting you're a liar ?

Let it go, old boy. It's eating you up.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 16, 2018

The Clamp said:
Let it go, old boy. It's eating you up.

Much as Pasta's porn habits seem to eat up you and you're remoaner mates Nibble.

Of course you want me to let it go ..... you don't like being shown up as a liar.

Mo Gosfield · Jul 16, 2018

nicko31 said:
Greening calls for final 3 way 2nd referendum vote based on a preference system. Another battle line opens in the Tory civil war

We in state of complete paralysis, Brexit has consumed pretty much everything in parliament. May is trying to deliver the undeliverable. She knows its a fudge that pleases no one, but has little choice

The Brexiteers lied, made Brexit sounds too simplistic and took advantage of a poorly informed public.

Answers on a postcard....

So your inference is that Leave voters were poorly informed, whilst Remain voters were not?
The vote was simplistic. Either in the EU or out. It was a straight yes or no. It didn't matter if it was a majority of one vote. What did the Leave voters have to be informed about? How good the EU is for us? Did they not see years and years of failed negotiations to get a better deal and EU intransigence on many matters? Did they not see the EU moving in a direction that none of us originally voted for? Did they not want sovereignty back? Did they not see, all around them, the effect on their quality of life of unrestricted and illegal immigration?. The pressure that is putting on public services, health and education.
Some would have worked out that the trading arrangements put in place by the EU are designed to suit Germany best and the UK a long way down the list. Did they not see how the economies of Southern European member states were destroyed by Brussels and the big banks. Some way to treat fellow members! Some would have considered that globalisation, a European superstate and protectionist policies within its member bloc, were not entirely what they want. Some would have considered that an ever growing beaurocratic machine was too expensive, too unaccountable and too corrupt for comfort. Some will have read political and economic history and realised that, ultimately, the EU is doomed.
But hey ho...the Remain campaign knew all this and were totally happy with staying in and the Leavers all believed that £350m was going to be spent on the NHS and everything in the garden was going to be rosy and leaving the EU would be trouble free.
Simple isn't it?

pastafarian · Jul 16, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Much as Pasta's porn habits seem to eat up you and you're remoaner mates Nibble.

Of course you want me to let it go ..... you don't like being shown up as a liar.

Oi .....its not a habit its a hobby, but gullible nibble/clamp liar reputation is indeed a laughing joke on NSC

GT49er · Jul 16, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
The majority of Leave voters feel frustrated that the negotiations have been left in the hands of a pro-Remain PM, who quite frankly, has singularly failed in her duty to respect the majority decision of the electorate. This situation has been stage-managed by key members of the Conservative party, who knew her limitations and knew that Brexit would start to flounder under her indecisive leadership and have fanned the flames.
She couldn't make up her mind before the referendum, which horse to back. She was getting conflicting advice. Finally, just days before polling, she decided to back the Remain campaign and tow the party line. As soon as she became PM, the soundbites started. Hollow and meaningless. Weak leadership and political conniving has created this situation, not the 17.4 m idiots who voted Leave.

Top post - right up to the 4th. word from the end. 17.3m of us are not idiots (in fact, technically there aren't as many as 17.4m idiots in the whole of the UK anyway). Many of us who voted leave are very intelligent, and I'm sure that there are some who voted remain who are as thick as sh1t (and the odd one or two of them have contributed to this thread!). Why spoil a good post with a stupid and derogatory piece of stereotyping?

The Clamp · Jul 16, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
Much as Pasta's porn habits seem to eat up you and you're remoaner mates Nibble.

Of course you want me to let it go ..... you don't like being shown up as a liar.

Okay, it's obviously something you enjoy so carry on. Far be it from me to take away one of your few joys in life.

GT49er · Jul 16, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
So your inference is that Leave voters were poorly informed, whilst Remain voters were not?
The vote was simplistic. Either in the EU or out. It was a straight yes or no. It didn't matter if it was a majority of one vote. What did the Leave voters have to be informed about? How good the EU is for us? Did they not see years and years of failed negotiations to get a better deal and EU intransigence on many matters? Did they not see the EU moving in a direction that none of us originally voted for? Did they not want sovereignty back? Did they not see, all around them, the effect on their quality of life of unrestricted and illegal immigration?. The pressure that is putting on public services, health and education.
Some would have worked out that the trading arrangements put in place by the EU are designed to suit Germany best and the UK a long way down the list. Did they not see how the economies of Southern European member states were destroyed by Brussels and the big banks. Some way to treat fellow members! Some would have considered that globalisation, a European superstate and protectionist policies within its member bloc, were not entirely what they want. Some would have considered that an ever growing beaurocratic machine was too expensive, too unaccountable and too corrupt for comfort. Some will have read political and economic history and realised that, ultimately, the EU is doomed.
But hey ho...the Remain campaign knew all this and were totally happy with staying in and the Leavers all believed that £350m was going to be spent on the NHS and everything in the garden was going to be rosy and leaving the EU would be trouble free.
Simple isn't it?

Now, that one is a top post!

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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

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