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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
I have a prediction if we remain.

In the years and decades to come, responding to the challenges the EU will inevitably face, the EU (commission) will be comprised of ever more authoritarian, protectionist, and "anti workers-rights" (etc) attitudes.

In the meantime the UK will have, at some point during this time, a liberal left leaning government. A government whose hands are tied and who will be unable to formulate the policies you want, and unable to resist policies which you despise.

At which point a lot of you who now want to remain in the EU will be asking what you can do about the policies being forced on us by the EU. The answer will be - nothing.

Then you will call for a refurendum on EU membership, now that "the game has changed" and you are "better informed" about the implications of being ruled over from Brussels.

& you will do it all with a straight face.
 






WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,796
Kinky Gerbils said:
Surely if that was the case it would strengthen our hand?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that was a 'yes' because we've now gone onto

dingodan said:
I have a prediction if we remain.

In the years and decades to come, responding to the challenges the EU will inevitably face, the EU (commission) will be comprised of ever more authoritarian, protectionist, and "anti workers-rights" (etc) attitudes.

In the meantime the UK will have, at some point during this time, a liberal left leaning government. A government whose hands are tied and who will be unable to formulate the policies you want, and unable to resist policies which you despise.

At which point a lot of you who now want to remain in the EU will be asking what you can do about the policies being forced on us by the EU. The answer will be - nothing.

Then you will call for a refurendum on EU membership, now that "the game has changed" and you are "better informed" about the implications of being ruled over from Brussels.

& you will do it all with a straight face.
Click to expand...

So you've given up trying to explain how your preferred 'no deal' would work and decided to play 'fantasy futures' instead.

I know someone who is very good at that :angel:
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,944
Crawley
A1X said:
Twitter thread on the legal requirements related to an A50 extension as seems to be the current flavour of the month

[TWEET]1084819342229991430[/TWEET]
Click to expand...

He has highlighted that the date of exit day and the definition of exit day can be amended by secondary legislation.
 






A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,750
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Baldseagull said:
He has highlighted that the date of exit day and the definition of exit day can be amended by secondary legislation.
Click to expand...

Indeed. He's an excellent follow for Twitterers who want to keep up with the legal side of all this stuff and can handle a few home truths (on both sides).
 


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
WATFORD zero said:
So you've given up trying to explain how your preferred 'no deal' would work and decided to play 'fantasy futures' instead :shrug:
Click to expand...

Like I said before, I don't have to explain how it would work. It would pose some challenges, most of which have been massively exaggerated for obvious reasons.

92% of our economy doesn't involve trading with the EU. Any challenges to trade with the EU impacts both us and the EU. That's two parties, all interested parties, having an interest in resolving any issues as quickly as possible.

But it doesn't matter. You are arguing to avoid short term challenge at the expense of long term benefit. Which is short sighted and foolish.
 






Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,835
Brighton
dingodan said:
Like I said before, I don't have to explain how it would work.
Click to expand...

Of course you don't have to explain how it works, but you must acknowledge it makes your argument for No Deal look incredibly flimsy?
 


F

fanseagull

New member
Dec 18, 2018
228
dingodan said:
Like I said before, I don't have to explain how it would work. It would pose some challenges, most of which have been massively exaggerated for obvious reasons.

92% of our economy doesn't involve trading with the EU. Any challenges to trade with the EU impacts both us and the EU. That's two parties, all interested parties, having an interest in resolving any issues as quickly as possible.

But it doesn't matter. You are arguing to avoid short term challenge at the expense of long term benefit. Which is short sighted and foolish.
Click to expand...

What 'challenges' would it pose do you think?
Shall I tell friends who are likely to lose their jobs as a result of this that they are facing a challenge, but it has been exaggerated and will provide long term benefits for them?
Are you likely to be lose your job but can see a greater long term benefit?
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,944
Crawley
dingodan said:
I have a prediction if we remain.

In the years and decades to come, responding to the challenges the EU will inevitably face, the EU (commission) will be comprised of ever more authoritarian, protectionist, and "anti workers-rights" (etc) attitudes.

In the meantime the UK will have, at some point during this time, a liberal left leaning government. A government whose hands are tied and who will be unable to formulate the policies you want, and unable to resist policies which you despise.

At which point a lot of you who now want to remain in the EU will be asking what you can do about the policies being forced on us by the EU. The answer will be - nothing.

Then you will call for a refurendum on EU membership, now that "the game has changed" and you are "better informed" about the implications of being ruled over from Brussels.

& you will do it all with a straight face.
Click to expand...

Our membership as it stands exempts us from any further political union, without detriment. That is to say, we cannot be forced to accept any further treaties, or treaty changes, and not accepting them would not lose to us any of the benefits we currently enjoy. There are elements that we are signed up to that could bring some changes to Workers rights, but we are not bound to not exceed them, they are minimum requirements. The direction that Farage and the Tory leavers would like us to take workers rights? Lower, and to do that they need us out.
 




dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
Mellotron said:
Of course you don't have to explain how it works, but you must acknowledge it makes your argument for No Deal look incredibly flimsy?
Click to expand...

I'm not making an argument for No Deal. No deal isn't preferable, a deal (which doesn't undermine actually leaving) is. I'm making an argument for actually leaving. Apparently the EU aren't interested in Brexit with a deal, at least not while they believe they (and remainers) can pressure us into caving in the face of leaving without a deal.

You are scared and want to cave. I'm not, and don't. That's all.
 




dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
Baldseagull said:
Our membership as it stands exempts us from any further political union, without detriment. That is to say, we cannot be forced to accept any further treaties, or treaty changes, and not accepting them would not lose to us any of the benefits we currently enjoy. There are elements that we are signed up to that could bring some changes to Workers rights, but we are not bound to not exceed them, they are minimum requirements. The direction that Farage and the Tory leavers would like us to take workers rights? Lower, and to do that they need us out.
Click to expand...

We might be exempt from further integration, but we are not exempt from future European Law. Don't confuse those things.
 




JCL666

JCL666

absurdism
Sep 23, 2011
2,190
dingodan said:
Someone on BBC News this morning revealed that things are already in place for leaving without a deal, but those involved have recieved instruction that they are not to reveal that these things are in place to the public, for political reasons.
.
Click to expand...


Well they are talking out of their arses.

I know that a number of projects were spun up less than two months ago to deal with some of the digital elements used in customs and trade. Those projects will not be complete by the end of March.
 


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,750
Deepest, darkest Sussex
dingodan said:
We might be exempt from further integration, but we are not exempt from future European Law. Don't confuse those things.
Click to expand...

So which European laws that we have seen introduced do you take particular exception to?
 








Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Both the Independent and Guardian now reporting that Brexit is unlikely to happen in March but extended possibly to July.
 


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