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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,081


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,193
The Fatherland
Would he mind suggesting how to make thousands of PDF files spanning over ten years searchable then ? I'm sure as a lawyer he'll understand the technical challenges of converting IT systems and data to be compliant.

Sure, but he wants a bit more context. Can you be a bit more specific. What is you’re looking for? Is this legacy issue or do you still work with PDFs containing in-scope data?
 


Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum


Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Limp.png

Wondered what their new album was called-nice one :thumbsup:
 


Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
Extract from Dan Hannan's blog. Hannan was quite a big noise in the campaign for Brexit. This is where he stands now. I think the point here is that even Hannan recognises that the UKs situation is a little more nuanced than simply 'in' or 'out' and he does acknowledge the closeness of the referendum vote. Very few of our thread's Brexiteers frame things in quite this way:

Obviously, no one gets 100 per cent of what they want in a situation like this. I won’t, you won’t and, come to that, Theresa May won’t, because prime ministers must sometimes compromise, just like everyone else. Still, it seemed to me that the rough outlines of an eventual deal were clear on the morning of 24th June 2016. A 52-48 outcome pointed to some sort of association that stopped short of membership. Britain would keep most of the economic aspects of the EU while losing most of the political ones. A compromise would be found on immigration, perhaps allowing EU nationals to take up job offers in the UK without subsidies from the British taxpayer. Britain would stay in a number of EU programmes, paying its share of the bill, but would withdraw from the quasi-federal institutions in Brussels. We’d end up, very broadly, in an EFTA-type arrangement, à la Suisse.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
Sure, but he wants a bit more context. Can you be a bit more specific. What is you’re looking for? Is this legacy issue or do you still work with PDFs containing in-scope data?

These PDFs contain customer phone numbers, email addresses and even third party engineer details. We keep them because the services we sell have a long contract period and we have to refer back to them every now and then. If a customer, we'll call him Joe Bloggs, asks us for all the data we hold on him we can't search the system for all instances of his data - it's just not possible when it's held inside a PDF. I know for a fact that we're not the only business in the same situation and having to review and change our working practices - Openreach for example are having huge problems making themselves compliant. We're only a small business and it's increased our costs in not only having to work differently but also in hiring additional heads.
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
Extract from Dan Hannan's blog. Hannan was quite a big noise in the campaign for Brexit. This is where he stands now. I think the point here is that even Hannan recognises that the UKs situation is a little more nuanced than simply 'in' or 'out' and he does acknowledge the closeness of the referendum vote. Very few of our thread's Brexiteers frame things in quite this way:

Obviously, no one gets 100 per cent of what they want in a situation like this. I won’t, you won’t and, come to that, Theresa May won’t, because prime ministers must sometimes compromise, just like everyone else. Still, it seemed to me that the rough outlines of an eventual deal were clear on the morning of 24th June 2016. A 52-48 outcome pointed to some sort of association that stopped short of membership. Britain would keep most of the economic aspects of the EU while losing most of the political ones. A compromise would be found on immigration, perhaps allowing EU nationals to take up job offers in the UK without subsidies from the British taxpayer. Britain would stay in a number of EU programmes, paying its share of the bill, but would withdraw from the quasi-federal institutions in Brussels. We’d end up, very broadly, in an EFTA-type arrangement, à la Suisse.

Hannan is revising history because he is part of the problem. He said "absolutely nobody's is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" to woo floating voters to the Leave side, while most of the Brexit leading lights did the same, highlighted Norway, Switzerland and Iceland that were countries doing pretty well outside of the EU.

That suggested there might be a "Soft Brexit" option, i.e. membership of the Customs Union or EFTA when - as is now evident - that was never, ever, ever on the agenda.

I'd like to know how many Leave voters bought these arguments about Norway, Switzerland and Soft Brexit. If just 1 in 25 of them had known it was Hard Brexit or nothing and voted Remain then there would have been an overall majority for Remain.
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
These PDFs contain customer phone numbers, email addresses and even third party engineer details. We keep them because the services we sell have a long contract period and we have to refer back to them every now and then. If a customer, we'll call him Joe Bloggs, asks us for all the data we hold on him we can't search the system for all instances of his data - it's just not possible when it's held inside a PDF. I know for a fact that we're not the only business in the same situation and having to review and change our working practices - Openreach for example are having huge problems making themselves compliant. We're only a small business and it's increased our costs in not only having to work differently but also in hiring additional heads.

Nobody has thought GDPR through from a technical point of view have they.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,193
The Fatherland
These PDFs contain customer phone numbers, email addresses and even third party engineer details. We keep them because the services we sell have a long contract period and we have to refer back to them every now and then. If a customer, we'll call him Joe Bloggs, asks us for all the data we hold on him we can't search the system for all instances of his data - it's just not possible when it's held inside a PDF. I know for a fact that we're not the only business in the same situation and having to review and change our working practices - Openreach for example are having huge problems making themselves compliant. We're only a small business and it's increased our costs in not only having to work differently but also in hiring additional heads.

Are you seriously telling me that in 2018 you store this sort of information in pdfs?

That aside, you have stated you cannot easily search these, but you clearly can if you want to as you are claiming you refer back to them. So, In summary it’s not an issue if you choose to search them. But it’s an issue if someone else wants you to.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,193
The Fatherland
Nobody has thought GDPR through from a technical point of view have they.

I think the issue is more with his clumsy ways of working. No wonder the U.K. has such low productivity.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
Are you seriously telling me that in 2018 you store this sort of information in pdfs?

That aside, you have stated you cannot easily search these, but you clearly can if you want to as you are claiming you refer back to them. So, In summary it’s not an issue if you choose to search them. But it’s an issue if someone else wants you to.

I think the issue is more with his clumsy ways of working. No wonder the U.K. has such low productivity.

Firstly, it's not MY clumsy way of working - I didn't determine the process. It was setup years ago and has worked. It certainly isn't the most elegant system but, until now, it has not been a problem. PDF is a great file format - and anyone can view them for free.

Correct - if you want to know all the instances of a particular bit of data in the system you can't search it because you can't search inside PDFs. I work with plenty of companies that are having similar challenges with GDPR and their data. Some of the bigger ones are spending an awful lot of money to deal with it. I'd be very surprised if German companies aren't facing the same challenges. As per usual when it comes to legislation that involves or relies on technology there is a complete disconnect between the politicians / legislators and how it is meant to be implemented. Anyway, I'm not worried, I'm sure your office sharing lawyer will be able to suggest how to get round these problems as I'm sure he's a real whizz when it comes to IT.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,264
I think the issue is more with his clumsy ways of working. No wonder the U.K. has such low productivity.

with an insight to practice an preparation in other members states, i can assure you its a European wide issue. a lot of heads in the sand over it.
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
Nobody has thought GDPR through from a technical point of view have they.

:lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol::lolol:

Do you have any notion of how many meetings there have been on GDPR? How many thousands of suggested amendments from IT companies (as well as lawyers). I've been writing about GDPR for five years and spoken to dozens of IT specialists who have been closely involved from the start.

The idea that this is something proposed out of the blue by bureaucrats with no thought of the consequences is absolutely crazy.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,193
The Fatherland
Firstly, it's not MY clumsy way of working - I didn't determine the process. It was setup years ago and has worked. It certainly isn't the most elegant system but, until now, it has not been a problem. PDF is a great file format - and anyone can view them for free.

Correct - if you want to know all the instances of a particular bit of data in the system you can't search it because you can't search inside PDFs. I work with plenty of companies that are having similar challenges with GDPR and their data. Some of the bigger ones are spending an awful lot of money to deal with it. I'd be very surprised if German companies aren't facing the same challenges. As per usual when it comes to legislation that involves or relies on technology there is a complete disconnect between the politicians / legislators and how it is meant to be implemented. Anyway, I'm not worried, I'm sure your office sharing lawyer will be able to suggest how to get round these problems as I'm sure he's a real whizz when it comes to IT.

I’ll refer you to the post above.
 






larus

Well-known member
Would he mind suggesting how to make thousands of PDF files spanning over ten years searchable then ? I'm sure as a lawyer he'll understand the technical challenges of converting IT systems and data to be compliant.


Exactly. What happens if your name gets printed on an email and set to a supplier/customer and they scan it in to their system. YOU have the ‘right to be forgotten’, so in theory, that customer/supplier should also have to delete their records of you too.

I understand the need for data protection an d the ‘right to be forgotten’, but that right should apply to the social media world or internet searches, not for normal company data.
 


larus

Well-known member
Are you seriously telling me that in 2018 you store this sort of information in pdfs?

That aside, you have stated you cannot easily search these, but you clearly can if you want to as you are claiming you refer back to them. So, In summary it’s not an issue if you choose to search them. But it’s an issue if someone else wants you to.

Yes people do. If you get paperwork from a customer/supplier, you might scan this in and store it is a document management system. It can’t be stored as data (unless you do an OCR as scanning, but you need to know what is text, graphics, etc and this is not viable. These get stores as PDFs but indexed manually. Inside these PDF’s are potentially peoples names and it can be printed anywhere on the paper. Then, how to you know that Peter Jones is not Peter J or Pete Jones or Mr P.Jones?

I can assume from your replies that you aren’t involved in IT and you aren’t involved in understanding the legislation, but it’s a lot more draconian that you understand.

Also, what happens if you have backups of your database (which one of my customers has) which are year-end copies of the database so we can restore and provide reporting if we ever get audits. When these get restored, this ‘user’ data could potentially be in this copy.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,522
Gods country fortnightly
and charities, not-for-profits, clubs? i know a couple are closing because of fear of GDPR.
though the problems with GDPR is nothing to do with EU really, we are happily applying it within our law. the main problem is that its designed bureaucrats to be a sledgehammer to crack many nuts, with next to no scope for loopholes and exceptions. the consequence is a very onerous piece of legislation, that enforces alot of nice to have rights (right to be forgotten) while not actually preventing a data breach, just punishing heavily any one that does.

It is a bit OTT for you have to be sensible about it, is the ICO really going to go after a group after some Allotment Association?

Its protection we all need, we've already seen the consequences when data is not handled. The EU is setting the pace and the rest of the world will follow
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,522
Gods country fortnightly




Jan 30, 2008
31,981
What a good idea to encourage all those massive economies to join the EU.Do you think their combined GDP will match the loss of Great Britain's?:lolol:
Albania,Montenrgro,Macedonia,Kosovo,Bosnia-Herzegovina,Serbia,and you lot take the mickey out of Commonwealth countries!That will really push EU figures further round the u-bend.:rotlf:
jumping on the bandwagon as one of the biggest contributors sails into the sunset .. lovely jubbly !!
regards
DR
 





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