[Politics] Brexit

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I have a very close acquaintance who works in DExEU. I'll let him know that all is well as a bloke on a football forum says 'that there are numerous civil servants on both sides hammering out the minutia of specific areas and articles on a daily basis behind the scenes'. Certainly prior to chequers I know they were all twiddling their thumbs waiting to see what it was they were going to do.

I may see him this weekend, and if I do, I'll let you know what he says

As predicted, you have avoided my previous question and wont clarify if you previously were of the opinion "brexit wont happen"......so no surprise there in your avoidance.......now its been brought to your attention again perhaps you can clarify......did you think previously, before you had to change your mind that "Brexit wouldnt happen"

Im looking forward to your "contact" confirming numerous civil servants are NOT working behind the scenes on a daily basis. Dont forget to share after the weekend with the class your findings and dont forget to ask how many days a week they are working on the ins and outs of the negotiations, or how many days a month if you are right?

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
You've got a point in that I was asking a question to which I thought I already knew the answer. I'm not sure it was a flawed question though: I was referring to the process of Brexit (which is in fairness all that we can 'know' at this point) rather than the outcomes. I did think that maybe a Brexiteer such as yourself might be heartened by the impact that the process has had on EU migration figures. And maybe there's something else to add?

But reflexively you've gone into name-calling and this isn't really worthy of you or the case you advocate. (For the record I'm not a Lib Dem supporter, although I'm not sure how or why that is significant or what business it might be of yours.)

Let's just agree to differ. Maybe another Brexiteer might engage.

Yes it was flawed
Glad for the confirmation on your Lib Dem status, its always good to weasel out the weasels.

WATFORD zero · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
As predicted, you have avoided my previous question and wont clarify if you previously were of the opinion "brexit wont happen"......so no surprise there in your avoidance.......now its been brought to your attention again perhaps you can clarify......did you think previously, before you had to change your mind that "Brexit wouldnt happen"

Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

pastafarian said:
One of these days you are just going to have to admit to yourself that you lost and we are leaving, and see sense that arguing pre-referendum issues over and over will not change that reality. You and watford zero`s brexit wont happen stance is for the fairies..........move on with your life.

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've never managed to find a post where I said we weren't leaving (despite being asked numerous times ) , do you not think that these fantasies maybe a bit of a hint that you should cut back a little on the porn and puff, and maybe try and come back to reality a little

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I think that we've simply become a less welcoming country; we've sent out a signal that is deeply unpleasant to many and they are voting with their feet. .

Latest ONS figures for july 2018
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...revisedfrommaycoveringtheperiodtodecember2017

Net migration has fallen following record levels in 2015 and early 2016, and has been broadly stable since. This is similar to the level recorded in year ending September 2014. Underlying this, immigration has remained broadly stable at around 630,000 and emigration has shown a gradual increase since 2015 and is currently around 350,000.

Our assessment is that net migration has been broadly stable over the last year. Although the Long-Term International Migration (LTIM) estimates show an increase in net migration over the latest year, this is due to an unusual pattern in the estimates for student immigration in 2016, which was not seen in other sources and which our quality work suggests is an anomaly

EU net migration continues to add to the UK population with around 100,000 more EU citizens coming to the UK than leaving. The estimated number of EU citizens coming to the UK “looking for work” continued to decrease over the last year and the number coming to the UK for a definite job has remained stable.

If the UK is now less welcoming and some have said( not you) that its a country of xenophobes and racists why are 100`s of thousands still coming here year after year with some areas remaining stable in numbers.
Your rhetoric and figures do not correspond

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

Its a very simple question you continue to skip around by deflecting onto where are your posts saying you supported it. That doesnt answer if you held the views or not.

Did you previously believe before you had to change your mind that "Brexit wouldnt happen" and we would remain in the EU
Yes or no.........its as simple as that.
if its no, just say no, i haver never said " brexit wont happen"

i expect you will avoid answering that simplest of question yet again.....and again....and again

obviously embarrassed

ManOfSussex · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I see it rather differently, although of course a lot of EU migrants might be finding that the depreciating pounds are of less value. I think that we've simply become a less welcoming country; we've sent out a signal that is deeply unpleasant to many and they are voting with their feet. Were I in their shoes I think I'd feel like this. What is paradoxical is that the proponents of this mask it in rhetoric about the UK being an more outward looking nation after Brexit. IMO the Brexit vote was not driven by this, but by the opposite.

There's noticeably less EU and particularly Eastern Europeans about where I am. So many vacancies for bar/care home staff etc too. 'Project fear' in the European media and 'not wanted in The UK' has played a part in the fall in numbers.

I see The CBI are banging their head against a brick wall today about it - https://news.sky.com/story/scrap-immigration-targets-after-brexit-cbi-says-11468146

Garry Nelson's teacher · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
Latest ONS figures for july 2018
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...revisedfrommaycoveringtheperiodtodecember2017

Net migration has fallen following record levels in 2015 and early 2016, and has been broadly stable since. This is similar to the level recorded in year ending September 2014. Underlying this, immigration has remained broadly stable at around 630,000 and emigration has shown a gradual increase since 2015 and is currently around 350,000.

Our assessment is that net migration has been broadly stable over the last year. Although the Long-Term International Migration (LTIM) estimates show an increase in net migration over the latest year, this is due to an unusual pattern in the estimates for student immigration in 2016, which was not seen in other sources and which our quality work suggests is an anomaly

EU net migration continues to add to the UK population with around 100,000 more EU citizens coming to the UK than leaving. The estimated number of EU citizens coming to the UK “looking for work” continued to decrease over the last year and the number coming to the UK for a definite job has remained stable.

If the UK is now less welcoming and some have said( not you) that its a country of xenophobes and racists why are 100`s of thousands still coming here year after year with some areas remaining stable in numbers.
Your rhetoric and figures do not correspond

Yes you are right: the overall pattern is as you suggest; the figures don't lie. It's the specifically EU figures that have dropped off and that was at the forefront of my mind. I stand by my overall observation about the message that the Brexit vote has sent out but I'll modify it to say that

a) this message has certainly impacted on Europeans;

b) maybe it hasn't got through to others

It does show, though, that in effect we've switched from one bunch of economic migrants to another and I wonder how comfortable many Brexit voters would be with this? (Perhaps, like me, they hadn't studied the figures with forensic accuracy.)

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Yes you are right: the overall pattern is as you suggest; the figures don't lie. It's the specifically EU figures that have dropped off and that was at the forefront of my mind. I stand by my overall observation about the message that the Brexit vote has sent out but I'll modify it to say that

a) this message has certainly impacted on Europeans;

b) maybe it hasn't got through to others

It does show, though, that in effect we've switched from one bunch of economic migrants to another and I wonder how comfortable many Brexit voters would be with this? (Perhaps, like me, they hadn't studied the figures with forensic accuracy.)

Ive said it before and ill say it again,I cant wait for the day all migrants are treated equally in the same system no matter if you are EU or non EU,all based on merits and needs equally, and there are no preferences given because you happen to come from a mostly white European nation. It will be the best step forward this country has taken on immigration in decades and will let this country finally be at ease with immigration if supply and demand are managed correctly.

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

Can you clarify, is saying you previously thought "brexit wont happen" a lie and you confirm you have never held that belief.
You seem to be having difficulty answering chap

ManOfSussex · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
Ive said it before and ill say it again,I cant wait for the day all migrants are treated equally in the same system no matter if you are EU or non EU,all based on merits and needs equally, and there are no preferences given because you happen to come from a mostly white European nation. It will be the best step forward this country has taken on immigration in decades and will let this country finally be at ease with immigration if supply and demand are managed correctly.

It's because you happen to come from a mostly developed nation, rather than a developing one. When's your future immigration idea happening, or is it now filed with the much heralded 'Australian Style Points System' that we were having after Brexit?

Hampster Gull · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Oh dear: this rather proves my point.

It exactly proves your point.

WATFORD zero · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
Can you clarify, is saying you previously thought "brexit wont happen" a lie and you confirm you have never held that belief.
You seem to be having difficulty answering chap

Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

pastafarian said:
One of these days you are just going to have to admit to yourself that you lost and we are leaving, and see sense that arguing pre-referendum issues over and over will not change that reality. You and watford zero`s brexit wont happen stance is for the fairies..........move on with your life.

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've never managed to find a post where I said we weren't leaving (despite being asked numerous times ) , do you not think that these fantasies maybe a bit of a hint that you should cut back a little on the porn and puff, and maybe try and come back to reality a little

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
It's because you happen to come from a mostly developed nation, rather than a developing one. When's your future immigration idea happening, or is it now filed with the much heralded 'Australian Style Points System' that we were having after Brexit?

Umm, there is a new immigration bill planned, but it is obviously dependant on the outcome of negotiations before it starts through the parliamentary process.
Initial new protocols on EU migration were outlined in the chequers bundle.
Im surprised you didnt know these things and are still harping on about an Ozzie style points system.........you really should try to keep up. No wonder there is so much rubbish information in remainer land if you are so out of date

daveinprague · Aug 10, 2018

If out means out, and we leave with no deal, then what?

Hampster Gull · Aug 10, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I see it rather differently, although of course a lot of EU migrants might be finding that the depreciating pounds are of less value. I think that we've simply become a less welcoming country; we've sent out a signal that is deeply unpleasant to many and they are voting with their feet. Were I in their shoes I think I'd feel like this. What is paradoxical is that the proponents of this mask it in rhetoric about the UK being an more outward looking nation after Brexit. IMO the Brexit vote was not driven by this, but by the opposite.

Three friends of mine, two from Italy and one from Lithuania, have said that to me. These are people who have been here between 10-20 years and have added to the wealth, brainpower and culture of this country (and whose kids see themselves as British). They believe they are treated differently now by many, that people vent their spleen as they are foriegn.

ManOfSussex · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
Umm, there is a new immigration bill planned, but it is obviously dependant on the outcome of negotiations before it starts through the parliamentary process.
Initial new protocols on EU migration were outlined in the chequers bundle.
Im surprised you didnt know these things and are still harping on about an Ozzie style points system.........you really should try to keep up. No wonder there is so much rubbish information in remainer land if you are so out of date

I did know these things and I knew you wouldn't be able to answer my rhetorical question because you were just harping on about a fantasy future immigration policy that you'd personally like on football forum - thanks for not disappointing. The Chequers proposals that you keep championing mentioned EU labour and sounded distinctly at odds with your pipe dreams above though. Very strange. Shame about all the cuts to The Home Office and FCO budgets over the last few years to being able to administer and enforce your preference too. :nono:

Or is your preference actually The Chequers one or do you not really know what day it is?

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

funny how you still wont deny you thought "brexit wont happen" and just rabbit the same response where you dont answer ............i would be embarrassed `too holding that belief mind you

WATFORD zero · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
funny how you still wont deny you thought "brexit wont happen" and just rabbit the same response where you dont answer ............i would be embarrassed `too holding that belief mind you

Since you've been repeating the same lies for ever, I've saved the same response

pastafarian said:
One of these days you are just going to have to admit to yourself that you lost and we are leaving, and see sense that arguing pre-referendum issues over and over will not change that reality. You and watford zero`s brexit wont happen stance is for the fairies..........move on with your life.

WATFORD zero said:
Since you've never managed to find a post where I said we weren't leaving (despite being asked numerous times ) , do you not think that these fantasies maybe a bit of a hint that you should cut back a little on the porn and puff, and maybe try and come back to reality a little

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
I did know these things and I knew you wouldn't be able to answer my rhetorical question because you were just harping on about a fantasy future immigration policy that you'd personally like on football forum - thanks for not disappointing. The Chequers proposals that you keep championing on EU labour sounded distinctly at odds with your pipe dreams above though. Very strange. Shame about all the cuts to The Home Office and FCO budgets over the last few years to being able to administer and enforce your preference too.

If you knew already why pose a daft question......makes you look stupid and argumentative for the sake of it

ManOfSussex · Aug 10, 2018

pastafarian said:
makes you look stupid and argumentative for the sake of it

Please. You're the undisputed, grand champion of that on this thread. :bowdown:

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