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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
WATFORD zero said:
I would suggest that Free movement between NI/Ireland is cherry picking the benefits of the EU.

The EU were always going to put the interests of it's members first and foremost. That's why they exist.

Following that they will co-operate and agree partnership deals with us, but their members will always come first and in any partnership, we are very much the junior partner.

I believe a lot of people didn't (and still don't) understand this :shrug:
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Trade tends to be pretty pragmatic (unlike politics). If it benefits both sides, both sides seek to make it happen. The concept of "junior partners" and "prioritized friends" is a political mentality not a trade mentality.

What do you mean by "Free movemement" between NI/Ireland? The way I understand it we want trade to be steamlined accross all UK/EU boarders, by way of a trade deal and (voluntary) agreements on goods/standards, what they refer to as "alignment". Again, these are things which we would surely have done anyway over time, had we never joined the EU. I'm sure the EU would have been perfectly happy with that kind of arrangement too, if it wasn't for the politics of transitioning from one to the other now.
 




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,844
dingodan said:
https://trade-knowledge.net/comment...xit-goods-tariffs-to-the-wto-what-that-means/
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I know, we are currently waiting the statutory 90 days for each member to raise any issues, before we can start negotiating with the members. I know that USA, New Zealand and Brazil raised issues within the first week, because we have based our submissions on the EU ones. (I haven't kept up to date with the current list of objections).

But I suspect that negotiating with USA, Russia, Brazil, India and all the major trading blocs of the world will be far easier than negotiating with the EU. Oh..... I forgot, we have to negotiate with the EU because they are a significant member of the WTO.

In fact, we will be the only member of the WTO trying to negotiate as a single country and not as part of a trading block, since Mauritania have now joined the Economic Community of West African States

Can't see any issues there, then :facepalm:
 
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WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,844
dingodan said:
Trade tends to be pretty pragmatic (unlike politics). If it benefits both sides, both sides seek to make it happen. The concept of "junior partners" and "prioritized friends" is a political mentality not a trade mentality.

What do you mean by "Free movemement" between NI/Ireland? The way I understand it we want trade to be steamlined accross all UK/EU boarders, by way of a trade deal and (voluntary) agreements on goods/standards, what they refer to as "alignment". Again, these are things which we would surely have done anyway over time, had we never joined the EU. I'm sure the EU would have been perfectly happy with that kind of arrangement too, if it wasn't for the politics of transitioning from one to the other now.
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I can tell you that in the trade where I spent 30 years, there were definitely Junior Partners and Prioritised friends, and plenty of Politics !

Which are the other EU borders where the EU is trying to achieve streamlined trade through 'alignment' and agreement on goods and standards ?

But if you're speaking on behalf of the EU and Trade I'm sure it will all work out alright :thumbsup:
 
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dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
WATFORD zero said:
I can tell you that in the trade where I spent 30 years, there were definitely Junior Partners.

But if you're speaking on behalf of the EU and Trade I'm sure it will all work out alright :thumbsup:
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I'm talking about international trade negotiations. Unless you are saying that you worked in that field for 30 years? (not being sarcy, if you did, then fair enough, but from what I've heard international trade negotiating teams tend to leave the politics to the politicians and get trade deals done pragmatically and apolitically).
 






WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,844
dingodan said:
I'm talking about international trade negotiations. Unless you are saying that you worked in that field for 30 years? (not being sarcy, if you did, then fair enough, but from what I've heard international trade negotiating teams tend to leave the politics to the politicians and get trade deals done pragmatically and apolitically).
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No not my area :wink:

But I know people who have worked in that area and although, as you say they themselves tend to be pragmatic, the biggest moan that I have heard is that they are under the direction of politicians. The working relationship between senior civil servants and politicians is always 'interesting' :lolol:
 


dingodan

dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
WATFORD zero said:
No not my area :wink:

But I know people who have worked in that area and although, as you say they themselves tend to be pragmatic, the biggest moan that I have heard is that they are under the direction of politicians. The working relationship between senior civil servants and politicians is always 'interesting' :lolol:
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I'm not always exactly clear on who is pulling whose strings in those relationships to be honest.
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
dingodan said:
Are we really trying to cherry-pick the benefits of the EU though? The way I see it all we are trying to achieve is leaving in a position in which we (us and the EU) would likely already be in had we never joined, i.e. with thoroughly worked out (voluntary) arrangements to facilitate trade and other areas of (voluntary) partnership. These things would have developed (voluntarily) over time anyway, and they would have been uncontroverisial, they would have been trivial. They are only an issue now because they would show that you can have the same kinds of cooperation and partnership with other European countries on a voluntary basis, without the need to cede political decision making to a supranational institution.
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Bit naïve? How could you have built a customs union, the CAP, the CPF, Structural Funds, the EIB and a Single Market on the basis of loose, ad hoc co-operation between 28 states? How could this associative relationship then speak with one voice at the table of world trade? I think there's a little bit of rewriting of history going on here? You might not like the EU but you can't disinvent it
 




larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
WATFORD zero said:
You obviously didn't read it in the report you linked to then which says

'Emmanuel Macron has become more unpopular than his predecessor Francois Hollande was at the same point in office.'

Holland(sic) managed to get ratings 20% lower than Macron is currently recording and knowing how you don't like people who 'make things up' :lolol:
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Maybe you’re right. I remember reading a newpaper article where it stated that his pupularity was lower than Holland. I assumed the link verified that - yes, I should have checked more closely I will accept my mistake. Shame the same doesn’t apply to the remain side eh! :lol:
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
larus said:
Maybe you’re right. I remember reading a newpaper article where it stated that his pupularity was lower than Holland. I assumed the link verified that - yes, I should have checked more closely I will accept my mistake. Shame the same doesn’t apply to the remain side eh! :lol:
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Well done. Good to see someone putting his hand up to admit an error. (I do this too BTW.)
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
tit.png
 






Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
The Clamp said:
Why are you reveling in far right achievements?
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Absolutely nothing to do with the far right,but everything to do with Macron's popularity,or rather lack of it,being discussed on the thread.I know Watford 0 is a tit,but I'm sure you wouldn't have him on ignore?
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,526
West is BEST
Two Professors said:
Absolutely nothing to do with the far right,but everything to do with Macron's popularity,or rather lack of it,being discussed on the thread.I know Watford 0 is a tit,but I'm sure you wouldn't have him on ignore?
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No, no you've gone again.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,591
Gods country fortnightly
WATFORD zero said:
You obviously didn't read it in the report you linked to then which says

'Emmanuel Macron has become more unpopular than his predecessor Francois Hollande was at the same point in office.'

Holland(sic) managed to get ratings 20% lower than Macron is currently recording and knowing how you don't like people who 'make things up' :lolol:
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Hollande hit an approval rating of 4% in October 2016, seems to recall also dropped below 20%.
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
You will all have to forgive my absence from this thread for a few days condolences because of Charles Hodges passing:



and as us real fans know - the greatest 2:10 in.................



:(
 








larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Food for thought.


Value of £ now: 1.1 euro

Value of £ at the time of euro launch: 1.6 euro


What a total disaster that euro has been! We're well out of it.
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I think you have confused the $ rate and the EURO rate.

Here’s a graph of the GBP/EURO for the last 10 years. As you can see, it’s been as low as 1.02 in that time. Yes, Brexit uncertainty has caused the rate to drop, but markets hate uncertainty. It’s highest point in the last 10 years is 1.44 not 1.60.

I would estimate (from looking at the 10 year chart) the average rate has been close to 1.20 - 1.25.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y
 


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