[Politics] Brexit

knocky1 · Jul 9, 2018

cunning fergus said:
Hmmm, how about excluding those citizens with inherited assets of more than 1m............even better if they could be excluded from standing as MPs.

If Jeremy Corbyn said that you'd say he was mad but now the revolution has revolved you're shouting the same mantra. I certainly do not see why I should not be allowed to vote or stand to vote due to a bit of luck.

National Socialism is a word deliberately not used currently by the neo "liberals" but it will be soon and big business is the finance behind it.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 9, 2018

GT49er said:
Gina Miller isn't a foundation for any sort of edifice - I was just using the awful woman as evidence of double-speak. Half of May's own party are anti-Brexit, ffs. The Whole Political establishment in this country was shocked and outraged by people voting to leave the EU - and they will try anything to overturn the referendum. Do you seriously think otherwise? I mean, seriously - come on! Get real, and admit what's happening, even if you personally would love to see the referendum reversed too. (I can accept that view, even if I disagree with it, but I cannot accept the ridiculous denial that the full force of the political establishment is up to its neck in trying to hinder/delay/stop Brexit.)
And forget all that Department S, A team carp - it's real government departments involved, not fantasy organisations.

If I thought the political establishment, which includes remain voter Theresa May, want to scupper the referendum outcome, they have had every opportunity to do so. They could stand up and say 'this is all unworkable - we shall have another general election that will also be a referendum - vote tory and we remain'. Instead thay have absolutely destroyed themselves. How can absolutely destroying their own political reputations be part of a cunning plan? Are you suggesting that Davies and Boris resigned because they are secret remainers who want to destroy Brexit by bringing theselves and their party into ridicule?

I think you are just worried that Brexit may not happen and are looking for people to blame :shrug:

Don't worry - it WILL happen. But it will be really horrible.

Billy the Fish · Jul 9, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
You can't just pick and choose your statistics. You said we only had 10 MEPs, when we have 73. That's almost a tenth of the European Parliament out of 28 countries.
Yes Socialists and Democrats will tend to stick together but when it comes to voting for something the UK doesn't want, then that is also negotiated by the heads of states, as well.

You and I vote for 10 MEPs by proportional representation. Our vote doesn't count for the other 63 UK MEPs, so when voting they are irrelevant.

Which EU voting bloc do our MEPs they belong to? Which one do you support?

knocky1 · Jul 9, 2018

LlcoolJ said:
Do people actually read stuff like that and think. Hmmm, yeah good points Melanie. Well, clearly they do otherwise we wouldn't be in this hellish mess. It's mind boggling and would be funny, but......

I certainly didn't.....

GT49er · Jul 9, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
They could stand up and say 'this is all unworkable - we shall have another general election that will also be a referendum - vote tory and we remain'.

No they couldn't.

Thunder Bolt · Jul 9, 2018

Billy the Fish said:
You and I vote for 10 MEPs by proportional representation. Our vote doesn't count for the other 63 UK MEPs, so when voting they are irrelevant.

Which EU voting bloc do our MEPs they belong to? Which one do you support?

Certainly not the UKIP ones, which include Nigel Farage. A very poor advertisement for proportional representation. Someone who doesn't bother going to Fisheries Committee meetings, but prepared to do stunts like throwing dead fish in the river Thames.

JC Footy Genius · Jul 9, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
The new voting rules will take account of the weight of the different member states. So the UK, France and Germany will have greater voting rights in the European Council, where ministers make decisions.

A bill will require the support of 55% of the member states, representing at least 65% of the European population.

The so-called "majority rule" for Council decisions will be extended to more areas. That means quicker decisions and fewer blockages.

National parliaments will be able to challenge decisions that are the prerogative of member states. Under Lisbon, if one-third of the national parliaments agree on something, they can act together to oblige the Commission to cancel and review a wrong decision. They will also be able to refer the matter to the European Court of Justice.

Well you've just googled that and found four things you like the sound of and probably couldn't name one thing in this Treaty or probably most others before proclaiming we are always in a better place after every treaty. We are always another step along the road to ever closer union after every treaty . Extending majority rule means we can be ignored more often and what about all the things the UK government didn't want in the treaty but were ignored?

On the plus side at least it's not a twitter cut and paste.

WATFORD zero · Jul 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
I expect the odds on a no deal are shortening after today's events.

I think we had that conversation already and you said 'no deal' meant 'extending membership of the EU' but we would call it 'emergency measures' so as not to upset the naive and intellectually challenged

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 9, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
Agree on Corbyn, but he is there because of the union barons. Len McCluskey is one who (probably rightly) sees Brexit as a right wing plot. "These people see in Brexit the chance to turn Britain into the low-wage, deregulated, race-to-the-bottom society of their dreams.” He wants in. Lots to play for.

No, no no. Corbyn is leader because utter clowns in the PLP thought it would be 'nice' to have a left winger on the leadership slate. Once he was on the slate, the idiotic constitution created by Milliband gave the constutuency parties too much influence on the outcome and, like tory constituncy parties, these are deeply 'conservative' (old skool, reactionary) and the momentum hegemony was born.

There is nothing radical about Corbyn's labour party. It is old fashioned and reactionary, made incoherent by the deluded rainbow yoof element who actually think they have found a political home, and bolster it. I agree with those who expect a Corbyn labour government to unravel within a couple of weeks. I'd love to think he's competant, but I simply don't. His Brexit stance is the exemplar. Why isn't he being clear, now, about how he will navigate a good deal? Because he doesn't have a clue.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 9, 2018

GT49er said:
No they couldn't.

Why not? If remain's what they believe? The answer is that's not what they believe. May's idiotic 'I supported remain but with navigate honestly the exit' is, in my view, sincere. I don't think she was lying, which is what you must believe.....

JC Footy Genius · Jul 9, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
That is a possible scenario. But another is they keep limping on, not wanting the public backlash which would mean relinquishing power for what could be the next ten year or so. In doing so they enable Parliament to support a waterdown May scenario (whose kidding if they think the EU won’t water this down), as the majority is soft Brexit not hard Brexit.

Possible but I can't see Labour supporting any May scenario as their main aim is to get into government. Every vague temporary position they hold is entirely calibrated to destabilise the government.

Thunder Bolt · Jul 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Well you've just googled that and found four things you like the sound of and probably couldn't name one thing in this Treaty or probably most others before proclaiming we are always in a better place after every treaty. We are always another step along the road to ever closer union after every treaty . Extending majority rule means we can be ignored more often and what about all the things the UK government didn't want in the treaty but were ignored?

On the plus side at least it's not a twitter cut and paste.

No, it was a good old BBC news report.

AmexRuislip · Jul 9, 2018

Chris Green resigns as parliamentary private secretary to the Department for Transport

Badger · Jul 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
For an early general election to happen two-thirds of Mp's have to vote for it or there needs to be a vote of no confidence. I doubt Tory Turkeys would vote for Xmas in either scenario.

One rule for them, another rule for the country voting in a referendum.

WATFORD zero · Jul 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Telling Mr Barnier we withdraw article 50 would also lead to a Tory implosion as well as much anger from many of the 17.4 million so in my view never going to happen.

Accelerating no deal preparations would be a sensible precaution.

So how do you think we should start, building the hard border and customs points in northern Ireland, or starting the requirements analysis for all the IT systems needed to monitor the WTO rules and tariffs :lolol:

You've always been a bit of a joker, but even you must realise you are now f***ing over real people's lives :shrug:

JC Footy Genius · Jul 9, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
I think we had that conversation already and you said 'no deal' meant 'extending membership of the EU' but we would call it 'emergency measures' so as not to upset the naive and intellectually challenged

Yes, but I have the ability to adjust my pov when circumstances change

I don't ever recall saying 'extending membership of the EU'. Emergency measures = where both sides agree to continue current arrangements in some areas. Really can't see the EU agreeing to ongoing membership in a no deal scenario anyway.

WATFORD zero · Jul 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Yes, but I have the ability to adjust my pov when circumstances change I don't ever recall saying 'extending membership of the EU'. Emergency measures = where both sides agree to continue current arrangements in some areas. Really can't see the EU agreeing to ongoing membership in a no deal scenario anyway.

I think David Davis has already beaten you in the UK rowing backward championships.

Amusing though this is, you do realise real people are being completely f***ed over by this?

Guinness Boy · Jul 9, 2018

Super Steve Earle said:
I only said it for comedy value but, I must admit I deal with a wide cross section of people of all types and the remainers have been virtually non-existent. My impression is that they are a noisy minority but, of course, that's a given because they need to try and change the will of the majority. I don't see any significant evidence of turning at all.

I really don't think you actually do, no matter what you think. For a start your user name puts you at least at 50 years old, maybe much more. How many 18-30 year olds do you deal with on a daily basis? I'm in my late 40s and most of my friends' kids are older than mine, plus I work for a company that actively recruits from university, yet, for me, the answer would be less than a handful.

We exist in echo chambers. We deliberately seek out those who we approve of and approve of us. I play poker regularly with seven other blokes. They range from a Green Party activist to a Tory stockbroker but ALL of us are remainers to a man. The only Brexiteer who came lasted one game and it wasn't our choice not to invite him back. We try desparately to keep politics off the running thread on here - in fact it's a banning offence - and still I gravitate to the remainers in that group.

Conversely, the same little group on here turns up on every single politics thread pushing the cause of libertarian / anti Muslim / Brexit /alt right view points. They may say that's paranoid but Pastafarian, AlfredMizen, Looney, JC Football Genius, ppf, the Gem and GT49er never, ever disappoint.

The fact is it was very nearly 50-50 and when you take no-shows in to account the country was split virtually in half. Since then it has proven impossible to leave on terms that suit anyone. If this wasn't the case leaving would be easy. If all of us thought the way Pasta, GT, JC and Alf think this would be deal done already. But we don't. The country is torn down the middle and that's the precise issue.

ManOfSussex · Jul 9, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
Len McCluskey is one who (probably rightly) sees Brexit as a right wing plot. "These people see in Brexit the chance to turn Britain into the low-wage, deregulated, race-to-the-bottom society of their dreams.” He wants in. Lots to play for.

See what happens at Labour's conference in September. They're in a pickle themselves over this, but the majority of UNITE Union and Labour's membership don't agree with how things are going and motions to be voted on and carried as policy on Brexit will be brought to the conference floor in Liverpool. (some by Momentum no less)

[tweet]1016268296365191168[/tweet]

Hampster Gull · Jul 9, 2018

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
No, no no. Corbyn is leader because utter clowns in the PLP thought it would be 'nice' to have a left winger on the leadership slate. Once he was on the slate, the idiotic constitution created by Milliband gave the constutuency parties too much influence on the outcome and, like tory constituncy parties, these are deeply 'conservative' (old skool, reactionary) and the momentum hegemony was born.

There is nothing radical about Corbyn's labour party. It is old fashioned and reactionary, made incoherent by the deluded rainbow yoof element who actually think they have found a political home, and bolster it. I agree with those who expect a Corbyn labour government to unravel within a couple of weeks. I'd love to think he's competant, but I simply don't. His Brexit stance is the exemplar. Why isn't he being clear, now, about how he will navigate a good deal? Because he doesn't have a clue.

Your passion got me thinking about that one HWT. :lolol:

I just checked, he had the lowest PLP votes of the four candidates getting nominated. He needed at least 15% and just got enough to get into the ballot, supported by the likes of Dianne Abbott. Anyway I might be wrong about the union Barron’s

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