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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,292
Cian said:
The "no deal" / "hard border" scenario that never really gets mentioned due to the horrendous side effects really should be mentioned, due to the horrendous side effects

The UK privatised its national grids for power and gas as is well known. The NI electric one was bought by the Irish government for strategic reasons - there is an entire lump of ROI to the north and west of NI; and the vast bulk of the gas network was built by the Irish government as a commercial endeavour as only a small area of Belfast actually had gas. But they aren't held through UK firms, they're operated from Dublin with zero UK company even existing thanks to the single market.

In a "no deal" scenario, Irish firms would not be able to sell energy to NI. Every consumer supply firm in NI requires that ROI operated grid to supply power, so effectively NI would be thrown back to the 19th century, no power no gas. It would take time to arrange operating companies to allow

The DUP really do want it to be 1690 but even then they probably expected electric light!

Had everything gone to plan in the last days of the Brown government, NI Water was to be sold also; likely buyer again was obvious. Probably for the best it never happened.

Obviously a fudge on humanitarian grounds would be found, rapidly, but it would stop it being a "hard brexit" by virtue of doing so. Its effectively impossible.
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this is what i hate about brexit, people creating mythical problems - not you, you're just taken in. single market only facilitates the original setup of such an arrangment, leaving it does not mean the Irish and NI cannot trade anymore. trade in goods and services existed before the EU and will continue after. dont take my word for it, EU member have large reliance on gas from Russia, sole supplier for some nations on their borders and even for Germany its a third of their supply. if gas can flow freely from Russia to Germany, why is there any problem for electricity from Ireland to NI?
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,477
The Fatherland


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,715
Gloucester
Cian said:
The "no deal" / "hard border" scenario that never really gets mentioned due to the horrendous side effects really should be mentioned, due to the horrendous side effects

The UK privatised its national grids for power and gas as is well known. The NI electric one was bought by the Irish government for strategic reasons - there is an entire lump of ROI to the north and west of NI; and the vast bulk of the gas network was built by the Irish government as a commercial endeavour as only a small area of Belfast actually had gas. But they aren't held through UK firms, they're operated from Dublin with zero UK company even existing thanks to the single market.

In a "no deal" scenario, Irish firms would not be able to sell energy to NI. Every consumer supply firm in NI requires that ROI operated grid to supply power, so effectively NI would be thrown back to the 19th century, no power no gas. It would take time to arrange operating companies to allow

The DUP really do want it to be 1690 but even then they probably expected electric light!

Had everything gone to plan in the last days of the Brown government, NI Water was to be sold also; likely buyer again was obvious. Probably for the best it never happened.

Obviously a fudge on humanitarian grounds would be found, rapidly, but it would stop it being a "hard brexit" by virtue of doing so. Its effectively impossible.
Click to expand...
This is the same argument as the one about no flights between the UK and the EU. It isn't true. English trains run by French companies won't stop running, and neither will EU owned water and power suppliers stop supplying to UK customers. No deal is not the same as no sale. It is in the self-interest of businesses to carry on doing business, and that is exactly what they will do.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,477
The Fatherland
GT49er said:
This is the same argument as the one about no flights between the UK and the EU. It isn't true. English trains run by French companies won't stop running, and neither will EU owned water and power suppliers stop supplying to UK customers. No deal is not the same as no sale. It is in the self-interest of businesses to carry on doing business, and that is exactly what they will do.
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But it will be on whatever terms we want. Britain is in no position of strength in these negotiations...as been demonstrated by their continued caving in to our demands.
 


C

cheshunt seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,495
Herr Tubthumper said:
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...n-chair-resigns-chief-executive-obscene-bonus

As I said yesterday, that bloke from Barnsley has another thing coming if he thinks the Tories will replace their EU funding when it goes. Tories only help themselves.
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In my experience EU funding is usually based on long-term strategic objectives (around social, economic issues) is free from party politics and provides reliable funding over a period of years if clear targets are met. It can be bureaucratic but that is usually to prevent any accusations of corruption. UK government funding is based on short-term political objectives, subject to ministerial whim, has moveable goalposts and targets that are based more on vanity than any long-term plan. If the Tories are in power it will reflect their priorities; South Yorkshire is fxxxed.
 




Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,942
Crawley
GT49er said:
This is the same argument as the one about no flights between the UK and the EU. It isn't true. English trains run by French companies won't stop running, and neither will EU owned water and power suppliers stop supplying to UK customers. No deal is not the same as no sale. It is in the self-interest of businesses to carry on doing business, and that is exactly what they will do.
Click to expand...

There would be import duties and VAT not previously payable, not so sure it would just keep flowing without problem, in the leaving without a deal situation.

As to the flights thing, it is not a fallacy, if we leave with no deal and declare we are not an EU member.
 




Dorset Seagull

Dorset Seagull

Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
Feb 21, 2009
4,426
Shaftesbury Dorset ( Hovis hill to you )
mikeyjh said:
Minutes from committees and from EU parliament available here - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/commi...rocYear=&urefProcNum=&urefProcCode=#documents You can also see on these documents which way the elected MEPs voted thus making them entirely 'accountable'.

I don't mean to have a pop, just pointing out what we know, that many people voted based on hearsay and in some cases, lies.
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Certainly I did read that certain top level meetings didn’t have published minutes or maybe even non at all. I have no way of knowing if this was fact or fiction as is the case with anything you read from whatever the source. However the wider repercussions of a Federal Europe were my main concern.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,462
West is BEST
What the F!? This is genuinely on a parr with something Kim Jong Un would come out with. "We're proving the doubters wrong, it's all going fantastically well".

I for one do not appreciate being taken for a mug by Theresa May, she needs to realise we are not all as daft as the 52%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42382391
 






ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I'm sure his chum Jacob Rees-Mogg has got some spare Roubles and a spare bedroom or 20 to help Farage through this difficult time if he needs it.

Either that or he could point Farage in the direction of one of those wonderful food banks he so likes.
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,890


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,783
vegster said:
He's still getting his salary from the EU despite all the time off and surely he has his LBC radio show plus other interests, he's far better off than most Sainsbury's workers for example
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I think you must be mistaken. He is a man of the people who speaks for the people :angel:
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
He's from Kent - he could always get on his bike and go fruit picking as well. I'm sure he'll be fine - There's record employment/lots of s*it, low paid, dead end jobs out there etc, as we keep being reminded.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Dorset Seagull said:
Certainly I did read that certain top level meetings didn’t have published minutes or maybe even non at all. I have no way of knowing if this was fact or fiction as is the case with anything you read from whatever the source. However the wider repercussions of a Federal Europe were my main concern.
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I respect your concern but don't believe it is well-founded. There are and there always have been supporters of a closely-unified United States of Europe but while they continue to get publicity it seems to me that the tide is, if anything, running in the opposite direction, particularly among eastern member states.

We've had plenty of Leave supporters on here saying that the EU is on the brink of collapse as nationalist parties flex their muscles. They can't have it both ways - claiming on the one hand that local nationalism is threatening the European dream and on the other that the EU is about to become a federal superstate.

I've no doubt that the hard-Brexit posturing of Nigel Farage has received wide publicity elsewhere in Europe. Sensible Europeans won't assume that he represents our future. Similarly, sensible Britons shouldn't assume that the federal views of a minority of mainly second-tier European politicians represent the EU's future.

Naturally, Britain's Brexitpresse gives the federalists maximum column inches. For them, such views are heaven-sent. Really though, we should file them in the bin with all the other misleading half-truths and rancid demonising practised by Paul Dacre and his kind.
 


Dorset Seagull

Dorset Seagull

Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
Feb 21, 2009
4,426
Shaftesbury Dorset ( Hovis hill to you )
The Clamp said:
What the F!? This is genuinely on a parr with something Kim Jong Un would come out with. "We're proving the doubters wrong, it's all going fantastically well".

I for one do not appreciate being taken for a mug by Theresa May, she needs to realise we are not all as daft as the 52%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42382391
Click to expand...
Don’t forget she was a remainer so probably does think it is going well. Wouldnt surprise me at all if this whole Brexit deal was done behind closed doors before the process even began. That might explain why David Davies didn’t think it necessary to waste a whole load of money on those impact assessments as he already knew the outcome!
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
vegster said:
He's still getting his salary from the EU despite all the time off and surely he has his LBC radio show plus other interests, he's far better off than most Sainsbury's workers for example
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In fairness to Nige, he's probably comparing himself to the bankers, speculators and hedge-fun operatives that form his circle of friends.
 




ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
In fairness to Nige, he's probably comparing himself to the bankers, speculators and hedge-fun operatives that form his circle of friends.
Click to expand...

He's certainly got some very wealthy friends in some very low places....................

Farage-hails-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-997980.jpg
 




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