[Politics] Brexit

pearl · Jan 16, 2019

I voted remain, but think we will leave

CHAPPERS · Jan 16, 2019

May, during PMQs, has twice avoided the question of her red lines. Reckon some kind of customs union idea in the offing.

Publius Ovidius · Jan 16, 2019

Yesish.

ManOfSussex · Jan 16, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
May, during PMQs, has twice avoided the question of her red lines. Reckon some kind of customs union idea in the offing.

She's definitely up for extending A50 with The EU after that exchange with Sir Ken Clarke and the fact Ian Blackford didn't get screamed at for suggesting it to her as well.

Notters · Jan 16, 2019

Stat Brother said:
And 3 years of deaths culling the herd of elderly leave voters.

I didn't say that for PC reasons but yes.

Giraffe · Jan 16, 2019

Baldseagull said:
Some really fat "if's" in there. In your job, have you ever had a deadline where if you did not get everything right, people might die? I have worked in construction, and generally, if the roof isn't on, people get wet when it rains.

CHAPPERS said:
And if we don't?

Go on. What then.

Mtoto said:
If we show we are coping ... interesting to know what "coping" means. Only a few hundred dead diabetics rather than thousands?

And ...er ... what if we don't? What if it is the catastrophe for us that anyone who knows anything about trade, transport and economics predicts, and therefore it is the EU position that is "strengthened incredibly" (ie. in addition to being at least six times bigger in economic terms when we sit down to talk trade, however things turn out). As an experienced negotiator you have surely considered all the possible outcomes, so how would you negotiate your way out of that?

Do you remember the night of 31st December 1999. We had been told for ages to expect the dread millennium bug. People stockpiled food, drugs, all sorts. What happened? Nothing, or very close to nothing. It would be exactly the same for a WTO deal. We have nothing to fear from this at all.

Notters · Jan 16, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
So maybe we should get a vote on EU membership alongside each general election ? Just to ensure being in or out always matches the current mood.

I actually think this would make sense rather than a snapshot on any one particularly day. Opinion on Europe changes continuously and there's a fair chance on any one given day that it could go one way or the other.

Westdene Seagull said:
Errrr ..... you're not actually factually correct. The terms of a referendum are defined in the legislation for THAT referendum - so they can either be binding or advisory. The legislation for the 2016 one said advisory ...... it could have said binding but didn't.

Indeed, the reason being that the answers weren't clear cut. This is why I've asked my MP for a legally binding second referendum with the three clear options on the table. I will accept the outcome.

SK1NT · Jan 16, 2019

btnbelle said:
The biggest lies came from the remain side with project fear.

Project fear... Explain what project fear is. It is just another annoying sound bite that doesn't mean anything. Hardly project fear when most things the Remain side said are coming true.

Two big reasons people voted leave were just lies… we have always:
Been Sovereign… https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...endum-campaign-brussels-article-a7559556.html

We have always been able to control our boarders and send EU citizens back after 3 months: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-back-control-immigration-eu-directive-brexit

btnbelle said:
Leave campaign had all their arguments grilled over in the media and we still voted LEAVE.

Most of the media and most people did not even understand the impact of Brexit. There is so much new information that has come to light which is why i cannot understand why Brexiters are so against a 2nd referendum. This is ultimately what Democracy is... We have identified new information so lets have another vote. Maybe we can even put some flesh on the bones about what flavour of Brexit the majority will go for. I keep hearing the Norway style rule being brandished about however this won't please the majority as free movement of people was one of the biggest reasons for voting Brexit.

I voted remain however the negatives of Brexit are even more stark than i could envisage.

Whether we leave stay etc etc i don't care now however this uncertainty is really affecting the economy.

ManOfSussex · Jan 16, 2019

Giraffe said:
Do you remember the night of 31st December 1999. We had been told for ages to expect the dread millennium bug. People stockpiled food, drugs, all sorts. What happened? Nothing, or very close to nothing. It would be exactly the same for a WTO deal. We have nothing to fear from this at all.

You're my favourite moderator on this site, bar none. You are just pure, comic genius. :bowdown:

cunning fergus · Jan 16, 2019

Baldseagull said:
You may well be right about the motives of some, and I am not usually swayed by the company my opinion has, but if remaining in the EU can have support from left, right and centre, whilst leaving seems to come from further left or further right thinking, I am reassured that remaining is more likely to be the right choice.

Well, as i have explained before, leaving the EU would be a radical step taken against the presently insitu establishment. Accordingly, in the traditional context of what is left snd right wing, Brexit is left wing. Radicalism is left, conservatism is right and any notion that remaining is a left wing construct in those terms is wrong.

Taking a more contemprary and economic view, (which I think you franked yesterday) new labour were tories (and therefore right wing economically). They are unlike Corbyn who is socialist snd has therefore been historically opposed to the EU.

There is not much about the EU that is nominally left wing, it could be defined as liberal in some regards, but not left wing.

In these days where truth is a pre requisite in political discourse, we should recognise that so we know who is genuinely left wing and socialist, and who is a right wing Tory/liberal.

Fairs fair....

The Clamp · Jan 16, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Errrr ..... you're not actually factually correct. The terms of a referendum are defined in the legislation for THAT referendum - so they can either be binding or advisory. The legislation for the 2016 one said advisory ...... it could have said binding but didn't.

Yeah, so it’s not binding. Keep up, chum.

Thunder Bolt · Jan 16, 2019

btnbelle said:
We were told the result would be implemented.

They lied.

Dr. No · Jan 16, 2019

Giraffe · Jan 16, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
You're my favourite moderator on this site, bar none. You are just pure, comic genius.

I'll take that as the compliment to which you didn't intend it to be :kiss:

Westdene Seagull · Jan 16, 2019

The Clamp said:
Yeah, so it’s not binding. Keep up, chum.

Read back what you posted ...... your post implied no referendums are binding ..... they can be but this one wasn't. Keep up Pal.

SK1NT · Jan 16, 2019

Where has this hatred of the EU come from.... Years and years of myths and lies pedaled by the media.

This site lists many EU myths that were published and are untrue...

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Giraffe · Jan 16, 2019

"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."

Adolf Hitler.

sydney · Jan 16, 2019

dingodan said:
You might as well just have asked if people want to leave or not, because that's how they will vote in this poll.

how you got away without a ban i'll never know.....tsk....tsk....:snigger:

Westdene Seagull · Jan 16, 2019

Giraffe said:
Do you remember the night of 31st December 1999. We had been told for ages to expect the dread millennium bug. People stockpiled food, drugs, all sorts. What happened? Nothing, or very close to nothing. It would be exactly the same for a WTO deal. We have nothing to fear from this at all.

And it made IT people like myself an awful lot of money thanks to those ridiculous predictions which anyone close to the issue knew wouldn't happen.

durrington lad · Jan 16, 2019

we voted to leave - if you were asleep at the wheel when this vote was taken tough luck - goodbye brussels beauocrats, we are FREE!

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