[Politics] Brexit

Thunder Bolt · Nov 22, 2018

Imagine 'jumping the queue' of 26 years to become a member. Nobody would be that hypocritical would they Theresa?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...est-member-Marylebone-Cricket-Club-Lords.html

Westdene Seagull · Nov 22, 2018

mikeyjh said:
Well, they may argue that as we're giving up on one treaty, they can forget about the Gilbraltar treaty?

We're giving up on our EU treaties after a public vote. Gib had a public vote on giving up on the Treaty of Utrecht and 99% said no.

Westdene Seagull · Nov 22, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
Exactly. If only The Honourable Member for The 18th Century himself was Prime Minister, as I'm sure Mr Rees-Mogg would very politely remind The Spanish Prime Minister, The Most Excellent Pedro Sanchez of The Kingdom of Spain, that in addition to Gibraltar at The Treaty of Utrecht, King Phillip V quite clearly also agreed that the Island of Menorca is also ours and Her Majesty's Government will not agreeing anything in regards to Gibraltar as it would be the greatest mistake and vassalage since The Duke of Manchester signed The Peace of Paris in 1783 and betrayed The Menorcans after The Kingdom of Spain had clearly breached Article X of The Treaty of Utrecht by illegally besieging His Majesty's Sovereign Territory of Menorca in 1781.

I'm assuming from your rather wordy and sarcastic response you don't think such an old treaty is relevant in the 21st century ?

nicko31 · Nov 22, 2018

Baker lite said:
https://twitter.com/change_britain/status/1065217010374725633?s=21

No deal is better than a bad deal and a bad deal is better than the current deal. Let the People Decide the answer to that...

mikeyjh · Nov 22, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
We're giving up on our EU treaties after a public vote. Gib had a public vote on giving up on the Treaty of Utrecht and 99% said no.

You said they didn't have a claim because they signed the treaty, not because of any vote. They believe they have a claim to Gibraltar (I agree with them), so they see this as an opportunity to make some ground on that claim. Your citing a 300 year old treaty (I'm not sure why, given that there are fare more recent agreements) is obviously and easily dismissed given the fact that the UK has signed a whole raft of treaties since 1975 that we're about to renege on.

There is some bizarre thinking in this country that somehow as part of Brexit, UK should get everything on a plate and any irritating Johnny foreigners should keep quiet and cede to the master rules of the waves.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 22, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
the EU have bullied us from day one of the vote to leave, how are we going to change from within?, it's fall in line or else with this lot,the biggest problem has been remainers trying to get a Brexit deal that suits their remain ideals not what the country voted for, therefore it would have saved all this heart ache if we had a leaver leading the country out of the EU, but no, TM still wants that "close and special relationship" at any cost .
regards
DR

The EU is sticking to its agreed rules, which were partly written by us, seeing as we have a 10th of a say in the European parliament with 73 of the 750 seats available.
We are the ones who want to change, not them. They have been exactly the same since day one.
So how are they bullying us?

ManOfSussex · Nov 22, 2018

Westdene Seagull said:
I'm assuming from your rather wordy and sarcastic response you don't think such an old treaty is relevant in the 21st century ?

Yes, because as Spain can veto a future trade agreement down the line between The EU and The UK over the issue, they're the ones empowered by Brexit over Gibraltar going forward. 10,000 Spanish work in Gibraltar every day, the Spanish Government from the off have said their preference is for FOM to continue in regards to The UK, among other things - there's 300,000+ British living in Spain for example - I wonder what concessions we'll make down the line when the future agreement comes home to roost. The FOM can merely just gets kicked down the road if this Withdrawal Agreement ever passes. That's but one issue.

Stat Brother · Nov 22, 2018

A thread on fish & Brexit.

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Blue Valkyrie · Nov 22, 2018

nicko31 said:
No deal is better than a bad deal and a bad deal is better than the current deal. Let the People Decide the answer to that...

Wrong. Any deal is better than *no deal*.

And unless *no deal* is taken completely off the table the last thing we need is to expose the minds of the people to Information Warfare attacks by overseas malign actors trying to engineer a catastrophe.

Bold Seagull · Nov 22, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
the EU have bullied us from day one of the vote to leave, how are we going to change from within?, it's fall in line or else with this lot,the biggest problem has been remainers trying to get a Brexit deal that suits their remain ideals not what the country voted for, therefore it would have saved all this heart ache if we had a leaver leading the country out of the EU, but no, TM still wants that "close and special relationship" at any cost .
regards
DR

Rubbish, it has nothing to do with what remainers want, and everything to do with the hard cold facts regarding the economy.

As you have said on many occasions, Leave means Leave. The vote wasn't about what Leave means, only that we leave the EU, if that happens, no matter what it looks like, the vote is fulfilled. You can't have it both ways.

nicko31 · Nov 22, 2018

Blue Valkyrie said:
Wrong. Any deal is better than *no deal*.

And unless *no deal* is taken completely off the table the last thing we need is to expose the minds of the people to Information Warfare attacks by overseas malign actors trying to engineer a catastrophe.

Was just echoing May's words and how they have changed

Yeah should be May's deal or the current deal with no Euro, no schengen and a decent rebate.

portlock seagull · Nov 22, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
it sounds like you've been swayed by project fear and all the Pro EU media hype , no one's denying that there will be a few teething problems there always is when you change procedures but if you think the EU is the holy grail for the UK you are wrong, the EU will be falling apart in the future it's not a democratic body and just wants to use it's power within to erode every members identity as a country, do you think every one in the EU is happy with their ideals?
regards
DR

Far from, I’d very much like to have control of our borders, laws, be part of a customs union...but realise we cannot have these things because we’re too entrenched without causing enormous self-harm. I’ve changed from pro-Brexit to reluctant remainer I guess due to the helplessness of our weak negotiation power. I think you’re right about the future of the EU but it’s a question of when and how. Usually these things end badly, controlled collapse of empires is rare after all!

beorhthelm · Nov 22, 2018

nicko31 said:
Yeah should be May's deal or the current deal with no Euro, no schengen and a decent rebate.

why should we continue with the rebate, we are one of the richer and larger nations and should pay appropriately. unclear why we should stay out of the Euro or Schengen currently, and we should join them in the coming years if brexit is reversed and we stay in.

Lincoln Imp · Nov 22, 2018

GT49er said:
No, that was the UN, with a little help from NATO.

As I hoped was clear, I was referring to the internecine conflicts between the nations of Western Europe and for that reason I disagree. The primary role of NATO isn’t to bring those nations together and I can’t recall a case of the UN having to mediate between EU members but please correct me if you can.

nicko31 · Nov 22, 2018

beorhthelm said:
why should we continue with the rebate, we are one of the richer and larger nations and should pay appropriately. unclear why we should stay out of the Euro or Schengen currently, and we should join them in the coming years if brexit is reversed and we stay in.

if we don't put the brakes on these will be the terms of entry, our deal is the envy of other members

Publius Ovidius · Nov 22, 2018

There you go then. It's all done and dusted!

Wonder what they appeased the Spanish re Gibraltar with?

Tom Hark Preston Park · Nov 22, 2018

Brexit was never going to be decided by a 500 page document or the newly-unveiled Declaration. Half a million pages wouldn't even begin to cover every single nuance. But at least the Declaration makes a very good stab at moving things forward. Can't live life on MPs just stating vehemently what they DON'T want. Anyone can do that.

Pretty pink fairy · Nov 22, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
The EU is sticking to its agreed rules, which were partly written by us, seeing as we have a 10th of a say in the European parliament with 73 of the 750 seats available.
We are the ones who want to change, not them. They have been exactly the same since day one.
So how are they bullying us?

by being exactly the same as day one

regards
DR

vegster · Nov 22, 2018

Publius Ovidius said:
There you go then. It's all done and dusted!

Wonder what they appeased the Spanish re Gibraltar with?

I'm afraid all this palaver and argument has only produced the terms for our 2-4 year transition out of the EU, a deal which will probably not get approval in parliament. As for the long term agreement for trading between us and the EU ……. that could take forever.

Pretty pink fairy · Nov 22, 2018

Bold Seagull said:
Rubbish, it has nothing to do with what remainers want, and everything to do with the hard cold facts regarding the economy.

As you have said on many occasions, Leave means Leave. The vote wasn't about what Leave means, only that we leave the EU, if that happens, no matter what it looks like, the vote is fulfilled. You can't have it both ways.

But we're not leaving the EU under the current agreement, that's not leaving and you know it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qZhlrbcB8

regards
DR

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