[Politics] Brexit

GT49er · Dec 8, 2018

pastafarian said:
There seems to be a growing consensus among some that Parliament has simply lost the plot. I dread to think what will happen if it turns around and admits it has failed if it says it has exhausted all options and washes its hands of responsibility to deliver Brexit by giving another vote.
Probably time for the people to take back control and get rid of Parliament. They will have asked for it.

Parliament has lost sight of the fact that they voted to give the people a referendum (aka The Peoples' Vote, for those that seem to think we haven't had one yet) to decide. The fact that most of them voted against the outcome which the majority of their constituents wanted should be neither here nor there - but they are obsessed with their own importance, and believe they should have the right to over-rule/ignore it.
Their deliberate attempts to make the PM's task as difficult as possible, to try and make 'the deal' so unacceptable that they hope leavers will reject it (which they foolishly believe will mean it can just be wiped under the carpet) reflects very badly on the integrity of our parliamentarians.

GT49er · Dec 8, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
Your Brexit government have over 30 months negotiated a pile of s**t that no one likes. Time for the people to take back control #notleaving

We haven't had a Brexit government. Theresa May was a remainer. She may be doing a fearsomely clever job of f**king it up in the hope that it doesn't happen, but I am not that sort of conspiracy theorist and believe she is doing the best she can - with almost every other politician, including swathes of Tories, trying to f*ck it up for her.

Time for 'The People to Take back Control'? - sure. Let's make sure those slimy politicians, devious remainers like that ghastly woman who used her wealth to delay Article 50 and loud-mouthed shouty (but ignorant) yobs like Geldof don't weasel their way into ratting on the entire referendum result.

daveinplzen · Dec 8, 2018

Sort of sense the fear of a any talk of a 2nd referendum from Brexiteers :lol:

Hampster Gull · Dec 8, 2018

GT49er said:
We haven't had a Brexit government. Theresa May was a remainer. She may be doing a fearsomely clever job of f**king it up in the hope that it doesn't happen, but I am not that sort of conspiracy theorist and believe she is doing the best she can - with almost every other politician, including swathes of Tories, trying to f*ck it up for her.

Time for 'The People to Take back Control'? - sure. Let's make sure those slimy politicians, devious remainers like that ghastly woman who used her wealth to delay Article 50 and loud-mouthed shouty (but ignorant) yobs like Geldof don't weasel their way into ratting on the entire referendum result.

Nope, wrong again. Read the Tory manifesto, this government is a Brexit government. Your Brexit government. And they will go down in history as a one of the worst. No surprises there.

WATFORD zero · Dec 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Both the PM's deal and a Norway option completely undermines/reneges on the central theme of the Brexit 'take back control' campaign and the Conservative party 2017 manifesto commitments. Obviously Undemocratic loons and many remainer MP's ignore this fact and see this outcome as a second prize succesfully undermining the referendum.

As opposed to to the swivel-eyed loons who still believe Nige and Boris were telling the truth all along and their 'moon on a stick' Brexit is still achievable, even when all the evidence is staring them in the face :lolol:

GT49er · Dec 9, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
Nope, wrong again. Read the Tory manifesto, this government is a Brexit government. Your Brexit government. And they will go down in history as a one of the worst. No surprises there.

Oh, FFS, I know you're a remainer, but try sticking to the facts. Theresa May voted remain. End of argument.

Well, not quite - many Tory MPs are opposed to Brexit and will try to make sure it doesn't happen. Are you seriously in denial about that? Oh dear, oh dear. Prejudice or naivety? Well, only you can answer that honestly.

GT49er · Dec 9, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
As opposed to to the swivel-eyed loons who still believe Nige and Boris were telling the truth all along and their 'moon on a stick' Brexit is still achievable

I've never quite understood why a small minority of remainers like yourself and a few of your cohorts here on NSC feel compelled to make fatuous comments. I'd ask you to explain, but I don't think you're up to it. :shrug:

WATFORD zero · Dec 9, 2018

GT49er said:
I've never quite understood why a small minority of remainers like yourself and a few of your cohorts here on NSC feel compelled to make fatuous comments. I'd ask you to explain, but I don't think you're up to it.

Maybe because you and your cohorts go on about 'no deal' constantly when you don't have the first idea what it consists of or the requirements for your 'no deal' :shrug:

It's like trying to explain to a four year old why they can't have a unicorn for Xmas whilst they constantly reply 'well I asked Santa for it'

Baldseagull · Dec 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
Both the PM's deal and a Norway option completely undermines/reneges on the central theme of the Brexit 'take back control' campaign and the Conservative party 2017 manifesto commitments. Obviously Undemocratic loons and many remainer MP's ignore this fact and see this outcome as a second prize succesfully undermining the referendum.

You still not realised those Vote Leave people were full of shit?

GT49er · Dec 9, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Maybe because you and your cohorts go on about 'no deal' constantly when you don't have the first idea what it consists of or the requirements for your 'no deal'

Sunshine, you've picked the wrong fight there. Some leavers are likely to be more intelligent than you, and know exactly why we voted leave. Try and find any reference to No Deal by me: you won't succeed. Any more than a sackful of snide prejudiced derogatory comments about leavers will ever make you look like a smart political mover and shaker who knows better than other people.
Although, if you're asking would 'No Deal' be better than remaining? Yes, it would. MHO, that is, which is at least as valid as yours. Now, goodnight, sleep well - I've had enough for now of debating - if that's the word - with those whose minds are set in concrete, in the belief that they are only arguing with thickos.

GT49er · Dec 9, 2018

Baldseagull said:
You still not realised those Vote Leave people were full of shit?

You still not realised that remaining is shit? You want to be a laughable, ignorant, shouty person like Nob Geldof? That is your ambition? Your role model, the sort of citizen you aspire to be?

OK...........c'est la vie: each to his own :shrug:

Wow!

Baldseagull · Dec 9, 2018

GT49er said:
You still not realised that remaining is shit? You want to be a laughable, ignorant, shouty person like Nob Geldof? That is your ambition? Your role model, the sort of citizen you aspire to be?

OK...........c'est la vie: each to his own

Wow!

Wow indeed!

GT49er · Dec 9, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Wow indeed!

Yes, appreciate you wouldn't want to be considered a wanker like Geldof. I respect some remainers views, even if I don't agree with them. Some of them though, are just prejudiced tossers that believe they have been born more intelligent than those of us who voted to leave. They are prejudicially unable to accept that some of the people who voted leave did understand what they were voting for.
The same sort of arrogance that is unfortunately rife in the Palace of Westminster; thick as a brick MPs wanting to hold on to their place on the gravy train, but too stupid to realise that if they betray the electorate, they will be unemployed come the next election. And good riddance.

portlock seagull · Dec 9, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
As opposed to to the swivel-eyed loons who still believe Nige and Boris were telling the truth all along and their 'moon on a stick' Brexit is still achievable, even when all the evidence is staring them in the face

You do realise that the odds were so stacked against leave it’s why the government of the day finally allowed a referendum? Why there was no plan in place? And every step along the way is still being oppossed. It’s been a lesson in democracy, further evidence if needed that our Political masters aren’t really serving us and Brexit’s reversal could be the final, most serious breach in trust from a series of scandals that demand reform or even revolution. Whichever comes first, it’s unlikely either will happen peacefully which should worry every right minded person.

Baldseagull · Dec 9, 2018

GT49er said:
Yes, appreciate you wouldn't want to be considered a wanker like Geldof. I respect some remainers views, even if I don't agree with them. Some of them though, are just prejudiced tossers that believe they have been born more intelligent than those of us who voted to leave. They are prejudicially unable to accept that some of the people who voted leave did understand what they were voting for.
The same sort of arrogance that is unfortunately rife in the Palace of Westminster; thick as a brick MPs wanting to hold on to their place on the gravy train, but too stupid to realise that if they betray the electorate, they will be unemployed come the next election. And good riddance.

I am not suggesting you had no understanding of what you voted for, I am suggesting that it was not possible for anyone to know what we would get if we voted for leave. We may yet end up in a Swiss type relationship with the EU, where we stay closely aligned, or we may end up in a situation where we are stuck as sort of Zombie members, i.e. taking all the rules but without a say. I know neither of these is what you voted for, but nonetheless, it may be what you get.
I know you understood that whatever happens it will be economically damaging, in the short term at the very least, and that you felt the price was worth the reward of greater sovereignty, but I don't know if you knew that the reward you envisaged may never come. There will always be some treaty or other that the UK is signed up to, because it has benefits, that will restrict our ability to do something we might otherwise choose to do. I know you know this, so I assume it is just the level of constriction that membership of the EU places on us that is too much for you, and this is where I am concerned that either you have overestimated, or I have underestimated, the negative consequences of membership. There certainly are aspects of the EU that hinder moving in a direction that I would like our country to go in, but I feel that overall, membership is beneficial, and that those aspects that are a hindrance can be changed if our leaders desired it, and properly engaged with the EU and worked to get agreement, instead of just seeking opt outs for the UK only.

Baldseagull · Dec 9, 2018

portlock seagull said:
You do realise that the odds were so stacked against leave it’s why the government of the day finally allowed a referendum? Why there was no plan in place? And every step along the way is still being oppossed. It’s been a lesson in democracy, further evidence if needed that our Political masters aren’t really serving us and Brexit’s reversal could be the final, most serious breach in trust from a series of scandals that demand reform or even revolution. Whichever comes first, it’s unlikely either will happen peacefully which should worry every right minded person.

There will be no reversal of the direction of travel without another referendum, if another referendum changes our course, it would not be our Political masters ignoring the people, they would be listening to the people.
I do accept that there would be suspicion from some about the option of leaving, as it stands, as being deliberately shite so as to make remaining more appealing by comparison, but there is a lot of suspicion about the funding source of the Leave campaign, but no riots yet.

Kinky Gerbil · Dec 9, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

WATFORD zero · Dec 9, 2018

GT49er said:
Sunshine, you've picked the wrong fight there. Some leavers are likely to be more intelligent than you, and know exactly why we voted leave. Try and find any reference to No Deal by me: you won't succeed. Any more than a sackful of snide prejudiced derogatory comments about leavers will ever make you look like a smart political mover and shaker who knows better than other people.
Although, if you're asking would 'No Deal' be better than remaining? Yes, it would. MHO, that is, which is at least as valid as yours. Now, goodnight, sleep well - I've had enough for now of debating - if that's the word - with those whose minds are set in concrete, in the belief that they are only arguing with thickos.

It's not a matter of intelligence.

The simple fact is that you still believe that 'no deal' is an option and you still believe that there was some negotiated settlement significantly different from that which we got, even though there is now a mountain of evidence to the contrary. It's mere coincidence that your opinions mirror Nige, Boris and JRMs ?

You have been stitched up like a kipper and still can't see it.

WATFORD zero · Dec 9, 2018

portlock seagull said:
You do realise that the odds were so stacked against leave it’s why the government of the day finally allowed a referendum? Why there was no plan in place? And every step along the way is still being oppossed. It’s been a lesson in democracy, further evidence if needed that our Political masters aren’t really serving us and Brexit’s reversal could be the final, most serious breach in trust from a series of scandals that demand reform or even revolution. Whichever comes first, it’s unlikely either will happen peacefully which should worry every right minded person.

I thought the plan was to negotiate a good deal with the EU, whilst threatening 'no deal', and can't see what alternative plan there could be ?

The odds were stacked against leave, but not because it has been opposed, because of simple logic.

The problem was that the EU had already said they wouldn't renege on their principles and let us cherry pick, whilst a little research would have shown that our alternative of 'no deal' was a non-starter. Something that both the British Government and the EU knew from the very beginning :shrug:

Hampster Gull · Dec 9, 2018

GT49er said:
Oh, FFS, I know you're a remainer, but try sticking to the facts. Theresa May voted remain. End of argument.

Well, not quite - many Tory MPs are opposed to Brexit and will try to make sure it doesn't happen. Are you seriously in denial about that? Oh dear, oh dear. Prejudice or naivety? Well, only you can answer that honestly.

Your conflating things, which is typical.

She voted remain yes, then she listened to the vote, which is what people like you wanted is it not and said she now supports Brexit. It’s not diffficult to comprehend.

But more importantly she is the leader of the Tory party that says it will deliver Brexit, that ran on that agenda at the general election. You kept going on about it at the time. She was supported by even your extreme Brexit looney MPs, I remember Rees Smog supporting her.

So you propogate fake news.

This is a Brexit government, your Brexit government, and they are a sham.

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