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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,869
Deepest, darkest Sussex
I see from this morning's news programmes all the Brexiters understand how Airbus works better than Airbus understands how Airbus works.

Guess we can add this to all the other industries they understand better than the people who actually work in that industry?
 






K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,911
hassocks
pastafarian said:
sort of what i meant when i said not tearing shreds.
the sum total so far of tearing shreds out of what he has said is rubbish and pr stunt.

Never mind eh, im sure the real dissection of his words and article is coming full throttle after lunch
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Glad you have been taken in.

His actions speak louder than his words.

Still, he’s on his way.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,213
Surrey
pastafarian said:
slightly surprised remainers are not tearing shreds over what Dyson has put out in his statement........the vitriol from yesterday has gone a bit quiet.
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Don't be surprised. I initially couldn't be arsed because most Brexiteers on here can never be arsed to respond articulately to the myriad of worries presented by the rest of us. But I'll have a go anyway:

I thought this was telling - both in what it says AND what it omits:

"In many ways Dyson has changed beyond all recognition. China has quickly joined the US and Japan to be one of our largest markets, and others, such as Korea, Taiwan, and India, are growing rapidly meaning that Asia is an increasingly important region. We are also growing incredibly quickly in Europe – we grew at 33 per cent last year. "

You're deluded if you think their 33% growth success in Europe had nothing to do with a move to Singapore. As has been made clear, Singapore has a free trade agreement with the EU, whereas a post-Brexit UK doesn't. That means from Singapore, Dyson can continue to sell products to the EU without attracting tariffs, whilst simultaneously positioning itself to adapt to the Asian markets. They are a business that thrive on certainty - Britain doesn't give Dyson any certainty.

And oddly enough, that statement has omitted the size of it's export markets. The US is their biggest export market, with the EU as number 2 AS WELL AS expanding by a third! Of course they're going to move away from Britain.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,807
Hove
pastafarian said:
No i am not.......its an appaling idea to tell the public to vote again
But if parliament crumbes and fails and cant decide what to do and chickens out of its obligations to leave like cowards and forces another vote lets go Leave or full in......no messing around....Euro schengen army tax social justice governance everything......the full monty, no vetos or exceptions.......what would you vote ?
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In all honesty, it was an appalling idea for a referendum to tell a Parliament to do something it was never going to want to do. But let us not confuse Parliament with Government either, the Government has crumbled, the opposition members have stated what they would prefer and have done so from the outset and the last election. We have a party political system and with both parties split, there is no cowardice, only democracy, our sovereignty being enacted. Strange you have argued so hard for our sovereignty and yet so freely insult it.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,869
Deepest, darkest Sussex


K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,911
hassocks
A1X said:
I see from this morning's news programmes all the Brexiters understand how Airbus works better than Airbus understands how Airbus works.

Guess we can add this to all the other industries they understand better than the people who actually work in that industry?
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Why do Planes even need wings ?
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
pastafarian said:
You are of course right, we could indeed veto being involved in a EU army if it was formed.
You dont seem to want one either which is good, but can you not recognise other EU leaders are keen on such a structure as well as current influencial figures such as as Verhofstadt and others.
You are right that it can be formed without full membership participation, but what then, gradually others feel obliged to become involved in case they miss out on procurement ? Miss out on future agreed funding? Its another stealth integration. I find the whole thing worrying even if we are not part of a future EU army. 27 states in charge of European military security fighting bureaucratically over what decision to do next when they all have differing views and an immediate decision is vital......no thanks. Just look at the EU track record on trying to reach consensus on the migration crisis, months of wrangling and still countries now not agreeing with EU policy. Too many chefs.
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Perhaps. If it ever happens though.

Meanwhile we have the 29 member states of NATO in charge of European security including those headed up by Trump, Erdogan and the political basket case that is The UK with its ongoing separatist issues exacerbated by Brexit that puts into question the long term viability of its nuclear deterrent. I can see why some in The EU may mute the idea they do and feel the post war/cold war order of NATO can no longer be relied upon.

As I've said to you before, it'll be very chastening for English people such as yourself in the future as this country's relevance and influence wains in the coming years and we were to end up being not only the emperor with no clothes but the P5 member with no bomb.
 
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A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,869
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Kinky Gerbils said:
Why do Planes even need wings ?
Click to expand...

"We've installed the life-jackets and parachutes as a backstop in case the plane cra..."

"Don't need them, no backstops."

"But it's surely the right thing to..."

"NO BACKSTOPS! Unless we can throw them out of the plane immediately after take-off."

"That's insane."

"Shut up, you traitorous crashmoaner! If you BELIEVE the plane will fly without wings then it will, stop talking the plane down."
 








Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
Westdene Seagull said:
What I find bizarre is previously remainers kept saying the plans for an EU army were a lie by the leave side - project fear if you like. Yet here we are with the EU planning an army. And not a single remainer has held their hands up and said 'oh, I was wrong'. I wonder what other remainer lies will be exposed over the coming months ?
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Because it isn't a reality?
The Commission does not have any powers to propose laws regarding defence. The Council, the elected heads of the 28 can propose a common defence, but it must be unanimous, that means we or any other member can veto any common defence ideas. There are already operations where the EU covers the costs through ATHENA, which is a separate budget that we pay into by choice, and can leave at any time, for operations that are approved by the EU Military Committee, which is each member states head of defence. This means, if the Military Committee decides that for the benefit of the whole EU, an action or presence would be useful in an area, the members that provide that presence can claim some of the costs back from the pot. Whilst on EU approved operations, UK soldiers will wear the EU flag on uniforms in addition but are at all times UK soldiers, just as they are when on NATO operations and wearing NATO insignia.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
Westdene Seagull said:
I'd happily subscribe to your theory if it wasn't for remainers calling the leavers 'predictions' of an EU army lies.
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Some of our Leave MP's are clearly clueless about the EU, and so they are probably just wrong, but Farage knows, and he is lying. An EU Army cannot be created without unanimous consent of the member states, we have a Veto, Farage will say that they want to remove the veto from us though, but here is the thing, we can veto any move to remove the veto. It can't happen unless we and 27 others want it to happen, if that came about and our Government and 27 others wanted to do it, that would require a referendum in the UK under UK law, so long as the withdrawal act is repealed, because that act repeals the law requiring a referendum on any significant change in our relationship with the EU.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
pastafarian said:
And some of them now arguing that a EU army is probably a good thing and asking for evidence why it is bad, or saying we can opt out of it when they form it .........when all along they were saying its never going to happen, they are not even thinking about it.......its all leaver lies..
I remember a post on here before the referendum showing an article that said the EU bigwigs had instructed all talk of an EU army to stop until after the referendum, that was dismissed as balls too and rubbish..........guess what happens post referendum,more talk of an EU army and a step toward closer miltary ties with the signing of the Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) ..... i wish i had a crystal ball to remember who posted it.
Its about time remainers just accept this is the way it is heading and fully embrace this EU project along with the federal superstate dream or admit they are leavers too and want to get off the bus. All in or all out as another poster has put it.
Considering so many remainers have very limited positives to say about the EU and that many remainers, even on here say its screwed but we must stay in and reform it so the federal ideologues dont take over i think cunning F might have a point, lets have an IN OUT vote to just leave or fully commit to everything, Euro, Schengen, Army, Tax, Governance, Courts....the full Euro superstate or out..........i know what my money is on
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What is your problem with PESCO? You've got a bloody phobia about anything associated to the EU.
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Simster said:
Racist? I used China because they are not a democracy. And I used horseshit because as well as being the common name for equine excrement, it also adequately describes 99% of your posts. Aside from that, I am unaware of anything I have said suggesting any attachment to it.
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You,baldeagle,and butthumper,all seem very fond of using foul language referring to the waste products of pigs,horses,and cattle.China not a democracy?How come it has so many rich people?
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Rodney Thomas said:
I guess the Greeks shouldn’t celebrate Oχι Day then. You’re just so hopelessly wrong here. I can suggest some reading if you’d be interested?

Oh and I certainly don’t think Jezza is the new Messiah. In fact, I think he’s a very naughty boy.
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I really feel you have no grasp on reality or history.I asked which countries were helping us against the Germans and Italians.Where were the Greek goverNment,the Greek army,the Greek air force,the Greek navy?Who liberated the Greek people from German domination?Foreign forces freed them,with some Greeks assisting,like for example Prince Phillip.
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum






Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,213
Surrey
Two Professors said:
I really feel you have no grasp on reality or history.I asked which countries were helping us against the Germans and Italians.Where were the Greek goverNment,the Greek army,the Greek air force,the Greek navy?Who liberated the Greek people from German domination?Foreign forces freed them,with some Greeks assisting,like for example Prince Phillip.
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If a country like ours - with the might of an empire behind it, and with the advantage of being surround by water - genuinely considered appeasement before going to war with Germany, what makes you think nations on the European landmass with vastly inferior firepower and numbers had any choice beyond accepting German control?

The Dutch fought but were hopelessly overpowered. So did the Greeks, the French, the Poles, and so on. Many of these went underground. Why are you so thick as to need this spelling out?
 


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