[Politics] Brexit

Yoda · Nov 22, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
The figure wasn't particularly relevant the underlying point was .. spending the billions we send to the EU on our own priorities. Just one of the many factual arguments that won the day. Whereas the project fear whoppers that duped many remain voters have already been proved false. Record employment, continuing growth not as scary as the forecast immediate recession and half a million unemployed ..

Not been on this thread for ages as couldn't be bothered, but that was the whole point. The £350m wasn't even a factual figure when taking into account how much came back from the EU. It was the gross figure. not the net figure.

JC Footy Genius · Nov 22, 2017

Yoda said:
Not been on this thread for ages as couldn't be bothered, but that was the whole point. The £350m wasn't even a factual figure when taking into account how much came back from the EU. It was the gross figure. not the net figure.

Yes, the point was spending UK taxpayers money on UK priorities. The figure wasn't particularly relevant £100m 200, 400. There is also no evidence as far as I am aware that it was a decisive factor. But some people do like to bang on about it while completely ignoring the project fear lies.

nicko31 · Nov 22, 2017

portslade seagull said:
Bore off

I know the truth hurts, the first time we're seem this kind of prediction since 1983 and we all know how long ago that was

Da Man Clay · Nov 22, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
Yes, the point was spending UK taxpayers money on UK priorities. The figure wasn't particularly relevant £100m 200, 400. There is also no evidence as far as I am aware that it was a decisive factor. But some people do like to bang on about it while completely ignoring the project fear lies.

I might not have been relevant to you - but it certainly was to a lot of other people.

Baldseagull · Nov 22, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
The figure wasn't particularly relevant the underlying point was .. spending the billions we send to the EU on our own priorities. Just one of the many factual arguments that won the day. Whereas the project fear whoppers that duped many remain voters have already been proved false. Record employment, continuing growth not as scary as the forecast immediate recession and half a million unemployed ..

The underlying point is false also though, there are likely no savings to be had at all. The costs of increasing staff to take on all the bureaucracy the EU did for us, the decreased tax take from business that will now be done elsewhere in the EU and the decreased tax take from business that remains here but will have increased costs, will eat the contribution savings up, and then some.

Baldseagull · Nov 22, 2017

Hammond admitting today we are now the 6th largest economy, France has nicked the 5th spot.

pastafarian · Nov 22, 2017

One Love said:

How is it you believed from that the entire £350m would be allocated to The NHS and that all other beneficiaries of the money, which was widely discussed would actually receive £0.00 even though it was widely known other beneficiaries had been pledged funds from the supposed 350m.(Agricultural pledges, University pledges for those taking part in Horizon)
That’s incredibly gullible of you remainers.

Lincoln Imp · Nov 22, 2017

Dorset Seagull said:
Or perhaps it could be read as

Instead of sending £350m to the EU lets put that money to better use by doing things like funding our NHS.

The fact is I don’t personally believe that many people reading that thought we would use all the EU money for just the NHS. Also I believe most people realised that the leave campaign were not in a position to decide what the EU money should be spent on anyway as they had no authority.

The whole bus thing seems to have been used to somehow paint any leavers as gullible morons when most of us had real concerns over the future direction of the EU and voted accordingly.

How do you feel Dominic Cummins saying the £350m claim was the lie that pushed Leave over the line affects the point you're making?

The Rivet · Nov 22, 2017

In the spirit of the excellent comedy film airplane........'The Bus, the little red bus, it's in for me'............

pastafarian · Nov 22, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
How do you feel Dominic Cummins saying the £350m claim was the lie that pushed Leave over the line affects the point you're making?

He is wrong.
In the same way i would be wrong if i said 4 million people only voted Remain because they believed the chancellors scare lie about £4300.
We all know it was 6 million not 4 million gullible voters

GT49er · Nov 22, 2017

Baldseagull said:
Most maybe did see it as bull, but it was a close result and if it persuaded 600,000 people to vote leave, instead of remain, that would have swung it from a 50/50 split to the 52/48 result. It had an effect, Farages poster had an effect, and both were misleading.

Fair enough - a reasoned response from the remain side. Of course, there may have been a few who voted for this reason, but one thing I think we can agree on - none of us know exactly what was going through the minds of the other 30M plus voters when they voted. Unfortunately, a few of the more extreme remainers on here obviously think they do know! Ridiculous!
However, if there might have been a few who were moved to vote the way they did by the slogan on the big red bus - and I accept the possibility - I'm also quite sure that some people will also have been persuaded to vote remain because of the lies of Project Fear. So it's swings and roundabouts, really. Ultimately, the majority of people voted for what they wanted.

Klaas · Nov 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper · Nov 23, 2017

Klaas said:
View attachment 91389

View attachment 91390

"How is it you believed from that the entire £350m would be allocated to The NHS "

Fitzcarraldo · Nov 23, 2017

pastafarian said:
How is it you believed from that the entire £350m would be allocated to The NHS and that all other beneficiaries of the money, which was widely discussed would actually receive £0.00 even though it was widely known other beneficiaries had been pledged funds from the supposed 350m.(Agricultural pledges, University pledges for those taking part in Horizon)
That’s incredibly gullible of you remainers.

We can agree the £350m was a lie then?

The slogan doesn't say anything else about other industries. Just the NHS. It's chosen a very emotive subject for people, the NHS, and pledged a very specific, large, amount of additional funding at a time when most people agree it needs the money. To glibly say 'oh, that's not what they meant, they were making a wider point' is undermined by the director Vote Leave who, as Lincoln Imp says above, agrees that it was the specific pledge pushed Leave over the line.

I know you say above that he is wrong, but I'm sure you'll excuse me for believing him over you.

Fitzcarraldo · Nov 23, 2017

pastafarian said:
He is wrong.
In the same way i would be wrong if i said 4 million people only voted Remain because they believed the chancellors scare lie about £4300.
We all know it was 6 million not 4 million gullible voters

We don't know whether that is true or not? He said it would cost households £4,300 a year by 2030 and it is currently costing household an additional £400 a year. To me that actually seems on track.

Fitzcarraldo · Nov 23, 2017

GT49er said:
Fair enough - a reasoned response from the remain side. Of course, there may have been a few who voted for this reason, but one thing I think we can agree on - none of us know exactly what was going through the minds of the other 30M plus voters when they voted. Unfortunately, a few of the more extreme remainers on here obviously think they do know! Ridiculous!
However, if there might have been a few who were moved to vote the way they did by the slogan on the big red bus - and I accept the possibility - I'm also quite sure that some people will also have been persuaded to vote remain because of the lies of Project Fear. So it's swings and roundabouts, really. Ultimately, the majority of people voted for what they wanted.

What was it that Remain said that you think was particularly persuasive?

I can't think of anything that was as repeatedly, and widely, published on a comparable scale to the '£350million for our NHS' lie (and that has been proved decisively untrue) but I am happy to be proved wrong.

nicko31 · Nov 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
"How is it you believed from that the entire £350m would be allocated to The NHS "

We have got £350m for this winter though, nice jesture thanks Phil...

daveinprague · Nov 23, 2017

Brextremists cannot stop lying to themselves.

The Clamp · Nov 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Have fun. He was at as festival last year I went to. He had a huge band with him; I didn't see it but those who did said it was excellent.

Yes, had the band with him, was excellent. Also one of the best laser shows I've seen for a while. And always nice to see a Brighton Boy done good.

WATFORD zero · Nov 23, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
The figure wasn't particularly relevant the underlying point was .. spending the billions we send to the EU on our own priorities. Just one of the many factual arguments that won the day. Whereas the project fear whoppers that duped many remain voters have already been proved false. Record employment, continuing growth not as scary as the forecast immediate recession and half a million unemployed ..

That must have been a cracker of a meeting at Leave HQ.

'Won't people think that it means we will spend 350M on the NHS ?'
'No, they'll realise that it's not to be taken literally, but that it represents us deciding on our priorities'
'OK, stick it everywhere' :lolol:

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