[Politics] Brexit

portlock seagull · Nov 21, 2018

clapham_gull said:
Exactly, the only way to fix the EU is from within. You can then ride on the waves of anti-EU feeling (every now and then) and use it to your advantage.

Unfortunately we've thrown our toys out the pram.

Personally I find it mildly sinister how difficult it is to leave the EU without being "punished", but you don't change that by walking away.

This. I'm angry at the EU establishment, their belligerence and power is the forgotten wrong in all this mess. We're shackled and cannot break free, powerless to do anything unless we cut our hands off and risk bleeding to death. They ignored Cameron in 2016 so there's little hope they'd give improved concessions in return for remaining, even if that was an option. I'd vote remain if given a 2nd choice, knowing what we do now. And hope (wishfully in all probability) that we could change from within as you say. However, we're slaves to our Euro masters, perhaps that's the only real thing to come out of this - everyone should by now have realised this and hopes of a more autonomous, sovereign nation belong to the last century along with so much more regarding what Britain once was, including the 'United' Kingdom!

Two Professors · Nov 21, 2018

WATFORD zero said:
Knowing how you don't like links as the Internet goblins might get you

Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez has said Spain will reject the draft Brexit withdrawal deal without a clarification of the text on future talks on the status of Gibraltar.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46267684

You do realise that they come up with the same old crap every time they have an election forthcoming,or a bad set of financials.These are both due,so it's just hot air.The bi-lateral talks are continuing the adult discussion in the background,as most grown-ups are aware.Any word on the EU/Japan implementation yet?I know you are a bit slow,but 2 weeks is pushing it a bit.

Here's some nice crayoning for you.

portlock seagull · Nov 21, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
drama Queen stuff
regards
DR

Why do you say this DR?

CHAPPERS · Nov 21, 2018

Corbyn's indifference to the whole exercise showing at PMQs.

CHAPPERS · Nov 21, 2018

Green Cross Code Man said:
So you think it's bad that Scotland's views are not being represented.

Do you think it's okay for Scotland's voters to effectively veto what a majority of English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters want?

The SNP have got 59 MPs. Scotland heavily voted Remain.

ManOfSussex · Nov 21, 2018

Green Cross Code Man said:
So you think it's bad that Scotland's views are not being represented.

Do you think it's okay for Scotland's voters to effectively veto what a majority of English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters want?

It was 55-45 remain in Northern Ireland.

ManOfSussex · Nov 21, 2018

Driver8 said:
Then we’ll have a hard Scottish border too!

I recall reading an opinion piece by Alex Massie in The Times a while back in which he raised that very point - the harder the border, one way or the other, and worse economically Brexit is for Northern Ireland could be a unintended boon for the Unionist cause in Scotland when indyref2 rears it's head.

Green Cross Code Man · Nov 21, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
The SNP have got 59 MPs. Scotland heavily voted Remain.

Yep.

ManOfSussex said:
It was 55-45 remain in Northern Ireland.

And I was not referring to Brexit.

I just find it interesting that many people speak about how unfair it all is for Scotland.

It is ironic that Scotland is quite happy with any arrangement where their 59 (overrepresented at England expense btw) MP's can effectively veto any policy that the majority of English, Irish and Welsh MP's have voted for if it is a close vote. They want to have their cake and eat it. Up in arms when they are overruled by the majority, but happy to overrule the majority if chance allows.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Nov 21, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
Corbyn's indifference to the whole exercise showing at PMQs.

He's not indifferent to the subject - he wants to leave, always has.

Which makes it all the harder to understand how the 20 somethings, who want to remain, voted him as leader.

clapham_gull · Nov 21, 2018

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
He's not indifferent to the subject - he wants to leave, always has.

Which makes it all the harder to understand how the 20 somethings, who want to remain, voted him as leader.

Yes bizarre. Takes 5 secs to look up his voting record.

ManOfSussex · Nov 21, 2018

CHAPPERS said:
The SNP have got 59 MPs. Scotland heavily voted Remain.

They've got 35 out of 59.

Green Cross Code Man said:
Yep. And I was not referring to Brexit.

I just find it interesting that many people speak about how unfair it all is for Scotland.

It is ironic that Scotland is quite happy with any arrangement where their 59 (overrepresented at England expense btw) MP's can effectively veto any policy that the majority of English, Irish and Welsh MP's have voted for if it is a close vote. They want to have their cake and eat it. Up in arms when they are overruled by the majority, but happy to overrule the majority if chance allows.

I agree Scotland is over represented in Westminster. It's not just The SNP - The 13 Scottish Tories are utterly crucial to The Government, as are Labour's 7 and the 4 to The Lib Dems - that's 1/3 of their parliamentary party.

Unfortunately post-Brexit, whatever you may think about it, Faslane, Coulport, Trident renewal and Scotland, it's possible independence or not, becomes all the more important as The UK tries to adjust to the new order of things.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Nov 21, 2018

BBC correspondents Norman Smith and Adam Fleming both mightily impressive in explaining complex issues in easy to understand terms on the BBC lunchtime news :clap2:

Westdene Seagull · Nov 21, 2018

Plooks said:
I never said that nor would that happen.

Really ? So what exactly did you mean with this statement then ? :

Plooks said:
Also: if you think they are queue jumping why not expand freedom of movement? That would stop "queue jumping" would it not?

Westdene Seagull · Nov 21, 2018

Plooks said:
Exactly what I said. That DID NOT mean free unchecked movent with criminals and bad people (to use a trump phrase you probably like) waltzing about where ever they wish.

OK, so criminals are possible to find and therefore block. Now define 'bad' people ? What rules would you put in to prevent the 'wrong' people getting in ? How far geographically does your new FoM area stretch ?

nicko31 · Nov 21, 2018

List of 75 Tory MP not up for voting on May's deal

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/here-are-all-the-tory-mps-who-have-indicated-so-far-that

Christ, hope for her sake this is fake news

portlock seagull · Nov 21, 2018

Green Cross Code Man said:
Yep. And I was not referring to Brexit.

I just find it interesting that many people speak about how unfair it all is for Scotland.

It is ironic that Scotland is quite happy with any arrangement where their 59 (overrepresented at England expense btw) MP's can effectively veto any policy that the majority of English, Irish and Welsh MP's have voted for if it is a close vote. They want to have their cake and eat it. Up in arms when they are overruled by the majority, but happy to overrule the majority if chance allows.

It's not really ironic though is it - they're using their power in Westminster to become a recognised independent country (primary goal) within a 30ish strong European 'State' (secondary goal). They don't want to be a dependent country within the far smaller United Kingdom, that's no longer part of said European 'state'. Entirely different. And if that's what they want, let them have it. But they didn't the last time they voted. That said, quite 'a bit' has changed since :lolol:

Westdene Seagull · Nov 21, 2018

Plooks said:
Same damn checks they use now for letting eu people in. In am sure we could flesh out the details but you want everyone in a little box and not allowed the freedom to move so it is pointless discussing it with you.

Fine - you came up with some ridiculous and stupid comment and can't back it up with what you actually mean. Instead you sulk.

Ernest · Nov 21, 2018

Interesting opinion on Politics Live that no deal actually means not leaving the EU at all

hans kraay fan club · Nov 21, 2018

Ernest said:
Interesting opinion on Politics Live that no deal actually means not leaving the EU at all

What was the theory behind that?

WATFORD zero · Nov 21, 2018

Heard Crispin Blunt (Tory Brexiteer) on Radio 5 live earlier talking about using the transition period to implement an orderly 'WTO no deal' :facepalm:

No wonder there's idiots on here that are confused.

How much more barrel can be scraped ?

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[Politics] Brexit

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