[Politics] Brexit

cunning fergus · Jan 14, 2019

Baldseagull said:
The structure has evolved a little over time, and I am sure it could be improved upon, but unorthodox does not make it a bad system, or an undemocratic system.
I think it is less susceptible to corruption than our system, where party donors expect a certain amount of control of their pet MP's.
Not suggesting there isn't any corruption, but it doesn't come as built in as it is in our method.

The structure didn’t exist when we went into the Common market in 74, and those that warned what it would become were told not to be silly.

So, no one in the U.K. has ever voted for this unorthodox structure, 2016 was the first time the electorate could express a meaningful view......we know the result.

dingodan · Jan 14, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Okay, thanks for the warning, I'll try not to have nightmares.

Thanks also for brightening up a depressing January afternoon on here today - reading your posts and warnings such as the above has been just like reading a Melanie Phillips column in The Times if she'd taken Speed before writhing it.

If you think my posts aren't very jolly, it's because I'm trying to encourage you not to invite something which I know neither of us will like or want.

It's going to really do my head in when, in the years to come, people who want us to remain start saying "if only we had just left the EU in 2019, if you offered me that now I'd bite your hand off. Oh well, who was to know things would turn out like this?".

dingodan · Jan 14, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
Sorry to intrude but may I again mention Linda Sanchez? After Brexit, it is agreed that we will be desperate to do some sort of trade deal with the US. Linda, as I recall a senior honcho with the Democrats in the House of Representatives, has said that no such deal will be forthcoming if we don't agree to accept America's murky animal welfare standards. She has influence. We do not elect her and we can't vote her out but as a politician beyond our reach she may have a profound influence on the way we conduct our affairs. There are many more like her.

I'm sorry, but Brexiteers' vision of sovereignty Often comes across as simplistic and childlike.

She might have a say in our relations with her country. Fine.

She won't have any say on our domestic laws though will she. If we had a government willing to do what she wants domestically for the sake of a trade deal with the US (which I doubt they would need or want to), then that would be their responsibility. & You could hold them to account for that decision. Don't you understand the difference between making decisions for yourself (be they good or bad) and someone else making decisions for you.

This stuff isn't complicated, some of you people twist and manipulate the truth like a sport. So f*cking willfully blind, or perhaps just plain dishonest.

pastafarian · Jan 14, 2019

fanseagull said:
....and therein lies the problem; you haver no inclination to find any solution to heal the divisions. 'Just get on with it....' I doubt if we will find any satisfactory way forward from you. The vote was clearly dodgy, no one seems happy with the government's solution or no brexit, people are becoming more and more angry on both sides. Your solution...... 'get on with it'. Oh, and denigrating anyone who doesn't agree that we should plough on regardless.

I told you the solution, stop your whining and not wanting to honour a democratic vote then the divisiveness will go away.
Go on give it a go, repeat after me " the democratic vote to leave the EU should be honoured and we should leave the EU even though i didnt want to and voted remain"

WATFORD zero said:
Well if you have said it many times, maybe give us one instance where you say what you want - TM's deal, Norway, No deal etc etc. Because, as far as I remember you are the only person on this thread that has never said what they want. (I wonder why that might be)

And you can keep on referring to this thread all you like, there is not a single post where you state what you want

Try for a third time, give your crystal ball a rub and predict if we are leaving with a deal or leaving without a deal.
And keep reading that thread whilst you are playing with your ball, you cant have read it all again already, you will get to your answer eventually.

Baldseagull said:
Arron Banks donation having an unknown source that seems to be illegal.
Him using his Insurance firms customer database and staff to aid the campaign.
Collusion between different campaign groups to breach spending limits.
Breaching of spending limits.
Russian bots and probable funding via Arron Banks.
The £350 million lie.
The Turkey lie.
The Breaking Point poster.
The illegal harvesting and use of Data from Facebook.
No one is threatening our place in the single market lie.
Exact same benefits out as in lie.
They need us more than we need them lie.
Easiest deal in history lie.
etc. etc.

You want to uphold a narrow result obtained on the back of lies, criminality and Foreign state influence, and that is past it's use by date because the majority people still alive, voted the other way.

Well done, you have come up with irrelevant waffle to my post and for the cream topped it with the majority of people alive voted for remain…………..when did that re-run vote with your statistical confirmations happen? How is it you get to claim ownership of non voters and those still too young to vote too?

Since we are playing foreign influence Trumps……

What do I win?

Baldseagull said:
Yet I am an enemy of democracy for wanting to have a democratic vote.

You know what you are

The Clamp said:
Project fear.

hans kraay fan club said:
#ProjectThreat

“Don’t worry chaps, if we make everyone vote again and explain nicely we didn’t like the first result or just ignore the vote and revoke Article 50 there wont be any repercussions, any groaning and moaning will soon blow over, probably by tea-time……..storm in a teacup innit”

#Projectdelusion

A1X said:
So which European laws that we have seen introduced do you take particular exception to?

A1X said:
So which ones in particular do you not like?

What an infantile view. Can you really not comprehend that the issue is with the legislative process and not the content of individual pieces of legislation. By saying, as you are, that it must be about content of law only you wash your hands of process and say the ends justifies the means in all cases, even if benign laws, that you think are good come from the pen of a despicable dictator. Give your head a wobble.

JC Footy Genius said:
Can you point me to the post where you called for the scrapping of the EU after the imposed austerity and suffering in Greece?

WATFORD zero · Jan 14, 2019

dingodan said:
If you think my posts aren't very jolly, it's because I'm trying to encourage you not to invite something which I know neither of us will like or want.

It's going to really do my head in when, in the years to come, people who want us to remain start saying "if only we had just left the EU in 2019, if you offered me that now I'd bite your hand off. Oh well, who was to know things would turn out like this?".

OK, you've totally convinced me me that 'no deal' is the way to go.

Anything we need to do before 29th March, or can we just sit back and let it all happen :angel:

Bwian · Jan 14, 2019

Baker lite said:
I think we should do what 17.4million people who are on the right side of history want, winners are winners, losers are losers and to pretend otherwise will be a national disgrace.
On our way.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That would be the same principle that Farage would have employed then? He has stated many times that had the result been reversed, with similar margins then he would have been pressing for a second referendum.

Explain the difference if you can.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

cjd · Jan 14, 2019

Chicken Run said:
How do you define thick HT, my guess is anyone who doesn’t agree with you[emoji23]

I have given you a 'thumbs up' even though I am a 'Remainer'. Herr Tubthumper has been a continual snidey, arrogant poster
since this thread began. I would love to know how many Brexiteers he has managed to persuade to switch with his shocking and abysmal rhetoric.

A truly obnoxious German.

pastafarian · Jan 14, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
Thick people shouldn’t be allowed to vote. I don’t care what class they are.

That’s Momentum F###ed then

pastafarian · Jan 14, 2019

cjd said:
I have given you a 'thumbs up' even though I am a 'Remainer'. Herr Tubthumper has been a continual snidey, arrogant poster
since this thread began. I would love to know how many Brexiteers he has managed to persuade to switch with his shocking and abysmal rhetoric.

A truly obnoxious German.

This could be the way to start the healing process and end the divisiveness.We need to start thumbing each other more.
I`ll make a bookmark folder. .....cough

ManOfSussex · Jan 14, 2019

dingodan said:
If you think my posts aren't very jolly, it's because I'm trying to encourage you not to invite something which I know neither of us will like or want.

It's going to really do my head in when, in the years to come, people who want us to remain start saying "if only we had just left the EU in 2019, if you offered me that now I'd bite your hand off. Oh well, who was to know things would turn out like this?".

Quite simple then - Everyone at Westminster should vote for the withdrawal agreement tomorrow, like my MP is doing and get on with delivering the Brexit you voted for. :thumbsup:

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 14, 2019

Chicken Run said:
How do you define thick HT, my guess is anyone who doesn’t agree with you[emoji23]

I will devise an electoral aptitude test. Something which demonstrates a simple grasp of certain important things. I’ve met you and you seem a smart guy; you’ll pass.

Baldseagull · Jan 14, 2019

cunning fergus said:
The structure didn’t exist when we went into the Common market in 74, and those that warned what it would become were told not to be silly.

So, no one in the U.K. has ever voted for this unorthodox structure, 2016 was the first time the electorate could express a meaningful view......we know the result.

Our own system is an evolution away from a pure Monarchy, eroded over time to become more democratic. None of us voted to be under this UK system either.
Is it that you don't think a wider European Political entity is useful/beneficial in any way, or is it just the structure of what we have now that is not good enough?

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 14, 2019

cjd said:
I have given you a 'thumbs up' even though I am a 'Remainer'. Herr Tubthumper has been a continual snidey, arrogant poster
since this thread began. I would love to know how many Brexiteers he has managed to persuade to switch with his shocking and abysmal rhetoric.

A truly obnoxious German.

pastafarian · Jan 14, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Quite simple then - Everyone at Westminster should vote for the withdrawal agreement tomorrow, like my MP is doing and get on with delivering the Brexit you voted for.

Sounds like a plan, hope all you remainers have written to your MP and requested they vote for the deal rather than see us Leave on the default No deal instead.
Have any of you?

ManOfSussex · Jan 14, 2019

pastafarian said:
Sounds like a plan, hope all you remainers have written to your MP and requested they vote for the deal rather than see us Leave on the default No deal instead.
Have any of you?

No - My MP has already said no deal is not going to happen, so I don't need to waste her or my time writing to her.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 14, 2019

pastafarian said:
Sounds like a plan, hope all you remainers have written to your MP and requested they vote for the deal rather than see us Leave on the default No deal instead.
Have any of you?

We’ve got our country back, British sovereignty, send the buggers back etc etc. I’m therefore going to let Parliament decide what to do with May’s plan.

cunning fergus · Jan 14, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The EU President is elected by the EU Parliament (Juncker)
The Council of the European Union then nominates the other 27 members of the Commission - one pre nation, and then get a vote of approval from the European Parliament.

The government is the law making executive but with FPTP voting system they are quite often only representing about 38% of the people.

It’s manifestly not as transparently democratic as our own system, and that is not perfect......improvements have been suggested for years.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-09/the-eu-doesn-t-want-to-be-more-democratic

Further, democratic legitimacy of the only directly elected arm is far from certain with apathy rising year on year in its elections.

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm

A trend in sharp contrast to the Brexit ref that had a 72% turnout, the second biggest poll ever.

Democracy rules U.K.!

fanseagull · Jan 14, 2019

pastafarian said:
Sounds like a plan, hope all you remainers have written to your MP and requested they vote for the deal rather than see us Leave on the default No deal instead.
Have any of you?

Have you?

Thunder Bolt · Jan 14, 2019

cunning fergus said:
The structure didn’t exist when we went into the Common market in 74, and those that warned what it would become were told not to be silly.

So, no one in the U.K. has ever voted for this unorthodox structure, 2016 was the first time the electorate could express a meaningful view......we know the result.

The wording on the Referendum pamphlet in 1975.

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm

pastafarian · Jan 14, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
We’ve got our country back, British sovereignty, send the buggers back etc etc. I’m therefore going to let Parliament decide what to do with May’s plan.

Its preferential thick people like you shouldnt be involved in the democratic process anyway...........apparently..............according to a thick person with a stupid idea.

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