[Politics] Brexit

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 23, 2018

cheshunt seagull said:
They get a monthly financial support allowance during the exchange. Young people come to the UK from other parts of Europe as well and work with experienced business people here and we manage those exchanges.

I think this can still happen after Brexit, hopefully the government will fund this. Obviously I will never change my mind, but it's good to know these things. Thanks for also putting up a sensible post.

Two Professors · Mar 23, 2018

astralavi said:
the Daily Express reality?

Actually,it's from the BBC news website,and I left the worst bits off so schizoids wouldn't be triggered,but that obviously didn't work!Didn't RT or the Socialist Worker

lolol

have any coverage?

Two Professors · Mar 23, 2018

A1X said:
I like how you said "welcome reality" after posting a lot of utter drivel. Specifically...

1. Young people regard being in the EU as a cultural thing, and their increased turn-out in 2017 was their reaction to 2016.
2. Unless you're going to argue young people die before old people more often than not, the demographics point holds firm.
3. The EU isn't going anywhere. In 10 years time we'll be back in it unless we go to the Norway option plus Customs Union right now. Fortunately, the agreements this week appear to point to exactly this.

You know all this because you are psychic?The demographic survey showing youth intentions was recorded from university students,Joe Bloggs the bricklayer thinks culture is something you do to cannabis plants.If you think Putin doesn't want the Eastern group of EU states back under his control,then you're even dafter than I thought.He controls energy in Europe,not the EU.

Two Professors · Mar 23, 2018

cheshunt seagull said:
Direct access to one of the world’s largest labour markets would seem an obvious answer but here is an example of something of which I have direct experience.

I manage a scheme which gives young people looking to start a business the chance to spend 6 months working with an experienced entrepreneur in a centre of excellence in another European country. The aim is that they bring the skills and knowledge gained back to their business in the UK. OK it is very small scale in the scheme of things but has been life-changing for the 100s of people from the UK who have been on it. This scheme will either go or we will have to pay to participate thus making a small dent in the 350 million cash bonanza we were promised.

I guess that young people will be able to pick fruit or serve up flat whites back home but I wasn’t aware that this was a right that was currently denied to them.

If the labour market in the EU is so massive,why is their youth unemployment so catastrophic?Why do so many of their unemployed cross half the EU to come here?Jobs for the elite,deprivation or crime for the rest.What a foul mess,built on an ever-increasing mountain of unsustainable debt they are creating for their descendants.

A1X · Mar 23, 2018

Two Professors said:
You know all this because you are psychic?The demographic survey showing youth intentions was recorded from university students,Joe Bloggs the bricklayer thinks culture is something you do to cannabis plants.If you think Putin doesn't want the Eastern group of EU states back under his control,then you're even dafter than I thought.He controls energy in Europe,not the EU.

Your evidence on the demographic survey?

Putin might want those states in Eastern Europe back, but Nato prevents him doing so. Plus as renewable energy comes on stream the reliance on Russian gas diminishes. Germany recently stated they believe the could be free of Russian gas by 2030 thanks to their investment in renewable energy sources.

Also, don't sneer at bricklayers. I thought it was us Remainers who do all the sneering according to the tabloids.

A1X · Mar 23, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
Wow....now there is a bold statement, if ever I saw one.
You have decided that the EU will fly in the face of everything that has ever happened before, in political and economic history, and achieve its long term aims. The majority of members of the EU are uncomfortable/unhappy with the path chosen by the fanatics in control and this simmering/festering undercurrent will eventually boil over. Good luck if you think the EU is still going to exist, at least in the format we left it, in 10 years time.

You're extrapolating. Do I think the EU will achieve it's aims of "ever closer union"? No. Every country has a veto and many won't be happy to do so. Does this mean the EU will cease to exist? Not in my opinion. I can see a two-speed Europe becoming formalised, with a core European group (based around the Eurozone) which baselines at a level not dissimilar to where it is now, and a second tier encompassing the EEA, EFTA etc. where Britain will likely slot in (alongside Norway, Switzerland etc.). I think there will be upheaval in the EU institutions over the coming decade, but the fundamental principle wedding Europe together is structurally sound and won't be impacted. The likes of France and Germany have too much to lose by letting it fall apart, especially in a world where there are likely to be more trade wars such as we're seeing develop between Trump's America and Xi's China.

Not all international institutions disappear into the dustbin of history because they become inconvenient for certain members at certain points. The UN has proven a thorn in the side of all the major global players since it was formed, yet it survives intact and with the respect of the international community. There is scope for reform of that but again there is no good reason to disband it. I would actually argue that it has achieved it's long term aim of preventing major conflict between the superpowers and, effectively, a third world war.

A1X · Mar 23, 2018

bashlsdir said:
Young people have been mislead, I blame remainers for this. Please tell me what young people are going to lose by us leaving the EU.

Wow, nothing like a bit of patronising ageism.

What will young people lose? Their ability to move freely and find employment opportunities in the other members of the EU. Many of us will lose our jobs as the economy contracts over the coming years through loss of the single market and the impact on British businesses. In turn many will lose homes etc. they've scrimped and saved for. That's the reality of the economics Brexit plunges us into, and it will impact them (a) entirely unnecessarily and (b) against their will.

Pinkie Brown · Mar 23, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I'm not sure that we can learn much about patriotism from the Daily Mail.

"That is why I say, Hurrah for the Blackshirts! They are a sign that something is stirring among the youth of Britain. They are the symbol of that new realism in public life which alone can rouse it from its torpor."

1st Viscount of Rothermere (owner) writing in Daily Mail, January 1934.

The Fail headline with the black background this morning could well have been asked of the 1st Viscount Rothermere. The current Lord Rothermere’s father loved Britain so much he went to live in France as a tax exile. He then passed on the nom-dom status to his son, owning a newspaper (sic) through a tangled web of companies in Bermuda. Here is that picture from 1938. The 1st Viscount of Rothermere is pictured on the left. The chap on the right probably needs no introduction. Little has changed with the Mail proprietors outlook through the generations.

Lincoln Imp · Mar 23, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
Wow....now there is a bold statement, if ever I saw one.
You have decided that the EU will fly in the face of everything that has ever happened before, in political and economic history, and achieve its long term aims. The majority of members of the EU are uncomfortable/unhappy with the path chosen by the fanatics in control and this simmering/festering undercurrent will eventually boil over. Good luck if you think the EU is still going to exist, at least in the format we left it, in 10 years time.

I don't think your description of the EU's present and future state is correct but, leaving that to one side, what I find difficult to absorb is the simultaneous claims that Leavers make about (a) the EU falling apart/having its wings clipped dramatically under pressure from restless members and (b) the EU rushing headlong into the status of a federalised superstate, a status the UK is lucky to escape from.

Personally I think that both of those predictions is wrong but I am sure we can agree that both of them cannot be right. Can we?

cheshunt seagull · Mar 23, 2018

Two Professors said:
If the labour market in the EU is so massive,why is their youth unemployment so catastrophic?Why do so many of their unemployed cross half the EU to come here?Jobs for the elite,deprivation or crime for the rest.What a foul mess,built on an ever-increasing mountain of unsustainable debt they are creating for their descendants.

I would have thought this was a strong argument for investment in youth skills training, particularly of a practical kind which is accessible to all. Which is kind of what the example I gave looks to address on a small scale. I don't really see how drawing up the drawbridges in individual countries helps.

A1X · Mar 23, 2018

Lincoln Imp said:
Personally I think that both of those predictions is wrong but I am sure we can agree that both of them cannot be right. Can we?

Schroedinger's EU - Both a new thousand year Reich and also less stable than Wilfired Zaha in the opposition penalty area when within 3 feet of a defender.

Two Professors · Mar 23, 2018

A1X said:
Your evidence on the demographic survey?

Putin might want those states in Eastern Europe back, but Nato prevents him doing so. Plus as renewable energy comes on stream the reliance on Russian gas diminishes. Germany recently stated they believe the could be free of Russian gas by 2030 thanks to their investment in renewable energy sources.

Also, don't sneer at bricklayers. I thought it was us Remainers who do all the sneering according to the tabloids.

Your evidence on the demographic survey?You started it.Nato will not stand in Putin's way if those states want to rejoin a modern Comintern.The EU seems to want to p*** them off with all sorts of threats over migrants,who they can elect,etc.2030 is plenty of time for Russia to play games with energy supplies,especially as the greens having been doing Putin's work getting fracking stopped.Don't suppose the gas went off in your ivory tower,but Western Europe had just half a day's worth of gas last week.As for your sneery comment about brickies,I probably know a lot more than you do and they don't GAF about the EU.When was the last time you mixed some pug?

Two Professors · Mar 23, 2018

cheshunt seagull said:
I would have thought this was a strong argument for investment in youth skills training, particularly of a practical kind which is accessible to all. Which is kind of what the example I gave looks to address on a small scale. I don't really see how drawing up the drawbridges in individual countries helps.

I totally agree with youth skills training,but what is the point in training them with no job prospect at the end?I know it's lovely for the idle rich in Brighton to have their skinny latte served by degree level barristas,but how many coffee houses do we need?

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 23, 2018

Two Professors said:
I totally agree with youth skills training,but what is the point in training them with no job prospect at the end?I know it's lovely for the idle rich in Brighton to have their skinny latte served by degree level barristas,but how many coffee houses do we need?

We certainly need more manufacturing, and we need skilled engineers to do these jobs. Your right we can only have so many coffee shops.

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 23, 2018

A1X said:
I like how you said "welcome reality" after posting a lot of utter drivel. Specifically...

1. Young people regard being in the EU as a cultural thing, and their increased turn-out in 2017 was their reaction to 2016.
2. Unless you're going to argue young people die before old people more often than not, the demographics point holds firm.
3. The EU isn't going anywhere. In 10 years time we'll be back in it unless we go to the Norway option plus Customs Union right now. Fortunately, the agreements this week appear to point to exactly this.

what a clown !, in 10 years time people will be thinking what was the EU all about
regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 23, 2018

A1X said:
Wow, nothing like a bit of patronising ageism.

What will young people lose? Their ability to move freely and find employment opportunities in the other members of the EU. Many of us will lose our jobs as the economy contracts over the coming years through loss of the single market and the impact on British businesses. In turn many will lose homes etc. they've scrimped and saved for. That's the reality of the economics Brexit plunges us into, and it will impact them (a) entirely unnecessarily and (b) against their will.

HA HA HA, THAT ALL HAPPENED IN THE 80's as well.......... **** the EU, BYE BYE to a failing institution :thumbsup:

regards
DR

pastafarian · Mar 23, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
I’m pretty certain the reason [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] isn’t answering your question is because it’s stupid and you know the answer. And this deliberately obtuse approach seems to also be the adopted by your fellow Brexiteers as [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] was doing the same yesterday. It’s almost as if it’s you who doesn’t have an answer.

Correct, I don’t know the answer to that question, I havnt a clue what the final arrangement for the fishermen will be at the end of the implementation period or when trade discussions are concluded, but unlike your twit of a friend I have never claimed to know these things.
Its fairly obvious why he wont answer the question and explain what he claims to know, he is full of crap and doesn’t know what he is talking about. As he has shown throughout the whole thread he is way out of his depth on all things Brexit.
It is sweet though that you are protecting your little lapdog and talking for him. Perhaps you can answer the question for him as well if you know what the final arrangements will be for the fishermen.

Ernest · Mar 23, 2018

Be interesting to see what revelations come out about Brexit and Cambridge Analytical over the weekend, probably enough to warrant the result being annulled

JC Footy Genius · Mar 23, 2018

Mo Gosfield said:
Wow....now there is a bold statement, if ever I saw one.
You have decided that the EU will fly in the face of everything that has ever happened before, in political and economic history, and achieve its long term aims. The majority of members of the EU are uncomfortable/unhappy with the path chosen by the fanatics in control and this simmering/festering undercurrent will eventually boil over. Good luck if you think the EU is still going to exist, at least in the format we left it, in 10 years time.

Indeed, Remainers who thought they were just voting for the status quo were either incredibly naive or stupid ... possibly both. In truth, they didn't know what they were voting for. Every new treaty signed means more intergration and makes it harder to leave, not that the elites would ever risk giving the Great British Public another chance.

pastafarian · Mar 23, 2018

Two Professors said:
I totally agree with youth skills training,but what is the point in training them with no job prospect at the end?I know it's lovely for the idle rich in Brighton to have their skinny latte served by degree level barristas,but how many coffee houses do we need?

Who is going to serve their coffee and sandwiches in Pret is a huge concern to remainers

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[Politics] Brexit

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