JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
May knows she can backslide/fudge on some issues but free movement is a red line. It will end.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
May knows she can backslide/fudge on some issues but free movement is a red line. It will end.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
World Cup finals don’t start until next year
GT49er
Well-known member
Not forgetting , of course, that no matter how much remainers might see this as a huge issue that might affect Brexit (and in their wildest dreams stop it!
) that whatever is decided at the protracted negotiations, the locals will just carry on regardless, as always!
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,876
It's just as if the last 2 weeks didn't really happen. 
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
its all about the day we leave , move on you've had your 5mins of fameIt's just as if the last 2 weeks didn't really happen.
regards
DR
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
It's just as if the last 2 weeks didn't really happen.
It reminds me of the Blair years when two rival factions/ministers would pop in to see him and both come out convinced they had won the day.
If your interpretation ends up more accurate than mine then expect the Nicko Guardian link to be just the beginning of the backlash... it won't be pretty
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
i dont think this is the issue. funny thing is, it was one that was always down to how we apply the rules, so it comes down to presentation. leaving customs union is the real red line, because its something you can dress up, you either have bilateral trade deals or you dont. even if it doesnt actually matter much to the man in the street.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
It is to many, if we leave and end up with ongoing large-scale immigration with 50% ish from the EU I think no amount of dressing or presentation will disguise this. Agree leaving the customs union is also a red line though including having the freedom to negotiate during a transition phase.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Looks like a possibly needs to be added to the thread title as May has now backed down on the leaving date rather than be defeated again. No wonder the EU want this weak , spineless excuse for a leader in power
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
many in favour of restrictions would also support point based systems, under which skilled workers and students from across EU would still gain entry. so yeah, it will come down to presentation of how they are notionally restricted.
going back a few pages, seems a few remainers arent clear on freedom of movement, nor aware of the Common Travel area between UK and Ireland. i gather its had problems over the years, interestingly similar with the debate now. thing is, there is a preexisting legislation to cover UK-Ireland movement and its still in force because neither are in Schengen and theres a physical border (Irish sea) to account for. and yes, bottom line is the sea does become a hard border: you can have soft boarder to the free movement of people and goods; a hard border for movement of goods; and softish border on people, all in the same framework.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
I agree, and as a moderate Brexit voter I wouldn't be too unhappy with this outcome.
Cian
Well-known member
The "no deal" / "hard border" scenario that never really gets mentioned due to the horrendous side effects really should be mentioned, due to the horrendous side effects
The UK privatised its national grids for power and gas as is well known. The NI electric one was bought by the Irish government for strategic reasons - there is an entire lump of ROI to the north and west of NI; and the vast bulk of the gas network was built by the Irish government as a commercial endeavour as only a small area of Belfast actually had gas. But they aren't held through UK firms, they're operated from Dublin with zero UK company even existing thanks to the single market.
In a "no deal" scenario, Irish firms would not be able to sell energy to NI. Every consumer supply firm in NI requires that ROI operated grid to supply power, so effectively NI would be thrown back to the 19th century, no power no gas. It would take time to arrange operating companies to allow
The DUP really do want it to be 1690 but even then they probably expected electric light!
Had everything gone to plan in the last days of the Brown government, NI Water was to be sold also; likely buyer again was obvious. Probably for the best it never happened.
Obviously a fudge on humanitarian grounds would be found, rapidly, but it would stop it being a "hard brexit" by virtue of doing so. Its effectively impossible.
The UK privatised its national grids for power and gas as is well known. The NI electric one was bought by the Irish government for strategic reasons - there is an entire lump of ROI to the north and west of NI; and the vast bulk of the gas network was built by the Irish government as a commercial endeavour as only a small area of Belfast actually had gas. But they aren't held through UK firms, they're operated from Dublin with zero UK company even existing thanks to the single market.
In a "no deal" scenario, Irish firms would not be able to sell energy to NI. Every consumer supply firm in NI requires that ROI operated grid to supply power, so effectively NI would be thrown back to the 19th century, no power no gas. It would take time to arrange operating companies to allow
The DUP really do want it to be 1690 but even then they probably expected electric light!
Had everything gone to plan in the last days of the Brown government, NI Water was to be sold also; likely buyer again was obvious. Probably for the best it never happened.
Obviously a fudge on humanitarian grounds would be found, rapidly, but it would stop it being a "hard brexit" by virtue of doing so. Its effectively impossible.
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ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
The David Davis catchphrase of 'probably' would be more apt. I'm sure the the title will be left as it is though, it'll keep the smug, little England, think they know-it-all Tories like beorhthelm, Titanic The Tory and JC 'smug Tory little Englander' Footy Genius content.
Dorset Seagull
Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
I didn’t want us to become part of a Federal Europe run by people who don’t publish the minutes of meetings and would probably not be accountable for their actions. I am not against controlled immigration and I believe we should be able to vote out governments if we believe someone can make a better job of it.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
Minutes from committees and from EU parliament available here - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/commi...rocYear=&urefProcNum=&urefProcCode=#documents You can also see on these documents which way the elected MEPs voted thus making them entirely 'accountable'.
I don't mean to have a pop, just pointing out what we know, that many people voted based on hearsay and in some cases, lies.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
Unfortunately you're preaching to an audience that tends to forget that NI and its relationship with Ireland exists, apart from KNOWING that we're the good guys, republicans are the bad guys and Corbyn is the anti-christ for engaging with Sinn Fein.
.
If your interpretation ends up more accurate than mine then expect the Nicko Guardian link to be just the beginning of the backlash... it won't be pretty
So you're going to enact the democratic will of absolutely no one, for the question on the type of Brexit wasn't asked, using threats, beheadings and burnings in hell, reinforced with poorly worded, heavily capitalised, exclamation mark ridden social media posts.
That's the sort of thing Trump knocks one out over.
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What would be different under Corbyn?