[Politics] Brexit

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 19, 2018

As Raab flies out to put in a shift at the negotiating table (he might beat the 4 hours of his predecessor in one go!) I rather hope (I'm naïve) he might have these thoughts somewhere near the front of his mind:

On Thursday morning the chair of the Brexit select committee in the Commons, Hilary Benn, warned May there was no majority in the Commons for her plan.
“While it’s prudent for the government to prepare for all eventualities, what the government really needs to be focusing on is getting a deal that can command a majority in parliament,” Benn said.
He predicted that the public would turn against a no-deal Brexit as they became more aware of its implications. “I think the public needs to be told what the potential implications are, because I think the more the public engages with it, the less likely they are to say no-deal is OK, because it really isn’t OK,” he said.

AK74 · Jul 19, 2018

pastafarian said:
I`ll leave you boys with this to ponder ....yet again (its tickled me).....since it hasnt sunk in to those remoaners on here who are insisting MP`s should not ignore their constituents referendum vote, especially thunder clap
I will add "probably"

Full fact 13th july 2018
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-maj...bour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/

View attachment 98872

Other graphs available in the article

Two words that leap out: 'probably' and 'estimates'.

I'd prefer facts rather than supposition, but if the analysis gives you comfort then that's cool with me.

ManOfSussex · Jul 19, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
As Raab flies out to put in a shift at the negotiating table (he might beat the 4 hours of his predecessor in one go!) I rather hope (I'm naïve) he might have these thoughts somewhere near the front of his mind:

On Thursday morning the chair of the Brexit select committee in the Commons, Hilary Benn, warned May there was no majority in the Commons for her plan.
“While it’s prudent for the government to prepare for all eventualities, what the government really needs to be focusing on is getting a deal that can command a majority in parliament,” Benn said.
He predicted that the public would turn against a no-deal Brexit as they became more aware of its implications. “I think the public needs to be told what the potential implications are, because I think the more the public engages with it, the less likely they are to say no-deal is OK, because it really isn’t OK,” he said.

The fundamental problem with being told the implications of no deal, potential or otherwise, is that too many people will just dismiss it all as Project Fear again. This despite the aviation industry still having no clue what, if anything, will replace the open skies agreement, plans to stockpile dry goods food reported as being afoot by DExEU in an attempt to keep the food supply chain open, the Home Affairs Select Committee being told last year that HMRC and The UKBF would require military assistance for the ensuing chaos at ports and just last week, Energy Minister Claire Perry, saying generators are now actively being requisitioned as a precaution for the electrical grid supply in Northern Ireland being interrupted............

The Clamp · Jul 19, 2018

Genuinely interesting to read that the very staunch brexiteers on here dismiss Twitter and other technology based information sources (except [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] Facebook sources that nobody else can read of course). Is it that they will only view sources that agree with their viewpoint so as not to scare themselves? Is it a broad dismissal of anything new and forward thinking? A fear of progress? A combination of all the above? It is a very fear based attitude.

The Clamp · Jul 19, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
The fundamental problem with being told the implications of no deal, potential or otherwise, is that too many people will just dismiss it all as Project Fear again. This despite the aviation industry still having no clue what, if anything, will replace the open skies agreement, plans to stockpile dry goods food reported as being afoot by DExEU in an attempt to keep the food supply chain open, the Home Affairs Select Committee being told last year that HMRC and The UKBF would require military assistance for the ensuing chaos at ports and just last week, Energy Minister Claire Perry, saying generators are now actively being requisitioned as a precaution for the electrical grid supply in Northern Ireland being interrupted............

We are basically unplugging ourselves from the world. It's very, very sad.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 19, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
The fundamental problem with being told the implications of no deal, potential or otherwise, is that too many people will just dismiss it all as Project Fear again. This despite the aviation industry still having no clue what, if anything, will replace the open skies agreement, plans to stockpile dry goods food reported as being afoot by DExEU in an attempt to keep the food supply chain open, the Home Affairs Select Committee being told last year that HMRC and The UKBF would require military assistance for the ensuing chaos at ports and just last week, Energy Minister Claire Perry, saying generators are now actively being requisitioned as a precaution for the electrical grid supply in Northern Ireland being interrupted............

And all of this costs money. Our three most hardened Brexiteers on this thread are dusty old pensioners and consequently partially protected from a lot of the chaos. If the money for their pensions runs out, I wonder if they’ll be so bold and extreme then?

hans kraay fan club · Jul 19, 2018

The Clamp said:
Genuinely interesting to read that the very staunch brexiteers on here dismiss Twitter and other technology based information sources (except [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] Facebook sources that nobody else can read of course). Is it that they will only view sources that agree with their viewpoint so as not to scare themselves? Is it a broad dismissal of anything new and forward thinking? A fear of progress? A combination of all the above? It is a very fear based attitude.

To be fair to [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] the work he was quoting was not so much a 'source' as just a fictional story about future international alliances, that he somehow, tragically, felt supported his ideas about the future of the EU. Much as the works of Isaac Asimov support my theory that the EU parliament will eventually become super-efficient and streamlined, once all of the lower and mid-level tasks are carried out by robots.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 19, 2018

The Clamp said:
Genuinely interesting to read that the very staunch brexiteers on here dismiss Twitter and other technology based information sources (except [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] Facebook sources that nobody else can read of course). Is it that they will only view sources that agree with their viewpoint so as not to scare themselves? Is it a broad dismissal of anything new and forward thinking? A fear of progress? A combination of all the above? It is a very fear based attitude.

I'll answer this point as it is clearly partly aimed at me. I dismissed TB's reliance on Twitter not the platform itself. It's the fact that for every argument put up she back's it up ( or slaps it down ) with a Twitter link rather than arguing the point herself. Agreed I'm not the greatest fan of social media - in many ways it has brought as many detriments as it has benefits - but I'm certainly not fearful of progress in technology - I work it IT for starters ! BUT just because something is posted on Twitter or Facebook doesn't make it true.

Two Professors · Jul 19, 2018

The Clamp said:
Genuinely interesting to read that the very staunch brexiteers on here dismiss Twitter and other technology based information sources (except [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] Facebook sources that nobody else can read of course). Is it that they will only view sources that agree with their viewpoint so as not to scare themselves? Is it a broad dismissal of anything new and forward thinking? A fear of progress? A combination of all the above? It is a very fear based attitude.

What other technology based information sources are these?Twitter is just SMS for weak minded people (like your good friend Donald) who are too lazy to read more than sound-bites.Closed groups on social media exist in part to keep people like you away,but they also provide security for people who have cause to fear for their personal safety,including the author of that piece I quoted.Whilst some people on here love the idea of living under a communist system,the reality is somewhat harsher for people who live there.When have you lived in China?

Two Professors · Jul 19, 2018

hans kraay fan club said:
To be fair to [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] the work he was quoting was not so much a 'source' as just a fictional story about future international alliances, that he somehow, tragically, felt supported his ideas about the future of the EU. Much as the works of Isaac Asimov support my theory that the EU parliament will eventually become super-efficient and streamlined, once all of the lower and mid-level tasks are carried out by robots.

Why tragically?If you read Asimov then you surely must realise that a lot of their predictions come true.Or are you sneery about anything that doesn't fit into your little Utopia?

ManOfSussex · Jul 19, 2018

At least 2 Tory MP's have now stated that they were ordered to vote by Chief Whip Julian Smith despite being paired and when they refused he demanded to know why. All this despite The PM assuring the house yesterday that the Brandon Lewis/Jo Swinson failed pairing was done in error.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 19, 2018

Two Professors said:
What other technology based information sources are these?Twitter is just SMS for weak minded people (like your good friend Donald) who are too lazy to read more than sound-bites.Closed groups on social media exist in part to keep people like you away,but they also provide security for people who have cause to fear for their personal safety,including the author of that piece I quoted.Whilst some people on here love the idea of living under a communist system,the reality is somewhat harsher for people who live there.When have you lived in China?

more likely to stop any rigorous peer review of his nonsense.

Ernest · Jul 19, 2018

ManOfSussex said:
At least 2 Tory MP's have now stated that they were ordered to vote by Chief Whip Julian Smith despite being paired and when they refused he demanded to know why. All this despite The PM assuring the house yesterday that the Brandon Lewis/Jo Swinson failed pairing was done in error.

Sometimes it’s the smallest things that bring people down

Two Professors · Jul 19, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
And all of this costs money. Our three most hardened Brexiteers on this thread are dusty old pensioners and consequently partially protected from a lot of the chaos. If the money for their pensions runs out, I wonder if they’ll be so bold and extreme then?

Of course we will still be old and bold.As remainers keep reminding us,there will be lots of fruit-picking jobs on the go when all EU citizens have gone home to work in the full-employment :lolol:

27 Heaven.

Two Professors · Jul 19, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
more likely to stop any rigorous peer review of his nonsense.

I believe the MSS can be quite rigorous.

Two Professors · Jul 19, 2018

Ernest said:
Sometimes it’s the smallest things that bring people down

Have you thought about private consultation.Lots of women say they don't mind small ones.

ManOfSussex · Jul 19, 2018

Ernest said:
Sometimes it’s the smallest things that bring people down

As well as Heidi Allen, even Peter Bone is quoted as being 'very concerned' at this breach of trust.

Enormous pressure now on Smith to resign and Brandon Lewis is up to his neck in it over this too.

The Clamp · Jul 19, 2018

Two Professors said:
What other technology based information sources are these?Twitter is just SMS for weak minded people (like your good friend Donald) who are too lazy to read more than sound-bites.Closed groups on social media exist in part to keep people like you away,but they also provide security for people who have cause to fear for their personal safety,including the author of that piece I quoted.Whilst some people on here love the idea of living under a communist system,the reality is somewhat harsher for people who live there.When have you lived in China?

I lived in Suzhou for a year in the early 2000's. Next question.

Simster · Jul 19, 2018

Two Professors said:
Of course we will still be old and bold.As remainers keep reminding us,there will be lots of fruit-picking jobs on the go when all EU citizens have gone home to work in the full-employment 27 Heaven.

Why do you keep laughing at your own appallingly unfunny "jokes"?

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 19, 2018

Two Professors said:
I believe the MSS can be quite rigorous.

Like a lot of the time, I have no idea what you’re blathering on about. Why don’t you go and tend to your vegetable patch....I’ve got stuff to do.

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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

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Wouldn’t vote

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Bright-eyed. Bushy-tailed. GSOH.

We wunt be druv

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The voice of reason.

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch

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Stupid IDIOT

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"the man's an arse"

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