[Politics] Brexit

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
I think you're prematurely over simplifying what's been said and provisionally agreed. If what you say ends up being true then yes, I'll be very unhappy but so will millions of others. It will probably mean the decimation of the Tory party - I'd never vote for them again ( not that I did at the last two elections ). I also suspect you'd see the emergence of an anti-EU party .... possibly a revitalised UKIP or a new broader one.

I think you may be right about a new anti-EU party, but people may have learnt from this and ask this new party what it will do about the Ireland/NI border and legislative alignment before they get on board. It could well push the new party to a No deal/WTO stance. (Which still doesn't address the Ireland issue).

nicko31 · Dec 15, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

1 is best and most likely, preferably with some limited immigration control to stop Brexiteer bed wetting

2 is just suicide, not just the economy but everything elsewhere Ireland etc

3 would be the majority view by the time we get to that stage. But 45% of population left disillusioned. Heart says yes, head says no

WATFORD zero · Dec 15, 2017

nicko31 said:
1 is best and most likely, preferably with some limited immigration control to stop Brexiteer bed wetting

2 is just suicide, not just the economy but everything elsewhere Ireland etc

3 would be the majority view by the time we get to that stage. But 45% of population left disillusioned. Heart says yes, head says no

On point 1 it would be difficult to introduce immigration control with no borders. Unless you mean the Immigration control which is already available to us under the EU. (Registration etc discussed a few pages back). But we could have done that at anytime in the last 45 years and haven't bothered because of the administrative cost.

I really don't think people have realised we are being managed down the exact route the EU want to take us. Members of the Single market, Legislative Alignment, Full fees, No input into future direction and no concessions, and open borders.

That'll show those pesky Brits

nicko31 · Dec 15, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
A true patriot.

Its ruined her life and can't go out in public with her kids, she taken a huge personal sacrifice for democracy. The irony is here own father was chased out of Guiana for opposing a dictatorship, he came to settle in Britain

nicko31 · Dec 15, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
On point 1 it would be difficult to introduce immigration control with no borders. Unless you mean the Immigration control which is already available to us under the EU. (Discussed a few pages back).

I know, maybe free movement but with work permit scheme. It will have to be a fudge, kind of Austria plus scheme

The Clamp · Dec 15, 2017

To be fair, If I was a leave voter I would be both angry and utterly let down. i can see why they are so tetchy.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 15, 2017

The Clamp said:
To be fair, If I was a leave voter I would be both angry and utterly let down. i can see why they are so tetchy.

I get what you’re saying. But the referendum asked a simple question about remaining in the EU. Norway are not in the EU. So if this, or something similar, is the outcome then they really can’t argue, as we are frequently reminded, this is the Democratic will of the people.

The Clamp · Dec 15, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I get what you’re saying. But the referendum asked a simple question about remaining in the EU. Norway are not in the EU. So if this, or something similar, is the outcome then they really can’t argue, as we are frequently reminded, this is the Democratic will of the people.

Quite, I just mean so many of them bought into Farage's rhetoric of the Great Britain they've always wanted and the lies about money and keeping foreigners out. Instead they got conned. Well, they tried to con us all but 52% fell for it. But as you say, they just wanted out and by voting leave they handed over their rights and opportunities to actually have a say and change how the EU is run. Ironic really, by voting for "freedom" they ensured their own enslavement. Pity they tried to drag us down with them. At least most remain voters are intelligent enough to adapt and have most have the money to cushion us from the worst of it, it's the leave voters who are less educated and in lower paid jobs who will suffer the most.

nicko31 · Dec 15, 2017

The Clamp said:
To be fair, If I was a leave voter I would be both angry and utterly let down. i can see why they are so tetchy.

Inclined to agree. But it was sold as being as simple with trade deal agreed on a weekend etc, but in reality its very complicated, a lot has happened in 43 years.

If anyone thought we're past the worst of the process, they deluded

Its consuming government and the civil service, do they listen to people like Lord O'donnell?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ll-politicians-face-reality-brexit-rough-ride

The Clamp · Dec 15, 2017

nicko31 said:
Inclined to agree. But it was sold as being as simple with trade deal agreed on a weekend etc, but in reality its very complicated, a lot has happened in 43 years.

If anyone thought we're past the worst of the process, they deluded

Its consuming government and the civil service, do they listen to people like Lord O'donnell?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ll-politicians-face-reality-brexit-rough-ride

Yep. May grinning into a camera lens and declaring "we're well on our way" means nought. She has proven she is unfit for the task and anything she declares nw should be disregarded wholesale. She's a liar.

Baldseagull · Dec 15, 2017

WATFORD zero said:
I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

The time frame is going to make withdrawing A50 difficult, we cant get a deal done in the remaining time. If we ask for an extension to membership rather than a transition period, it may be possible to withdraw A50 after the 2 year time frame. Also, if we seek a transition period, I would think our rebate would be out the window, as it is an arrangement we have as members, so we could be paying the full whack during a period where we have no say but have to accept new regulations.

A Norway type deal would also involve large contributions, probably exceeding our current payments.

The best chance we have of the outcome actually being wanted by a majority is to give us a Referendum on withdrawing A50, or crossing the line and committing us to withdrawal on something similar to a Swiss or Norway type deal.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 15, 2017

nicko31 said:
Its ruined her life and can't go out in public with her kids, she taken a huge personal sacrifice for democracy. The irony is here own father was chased out of Guiana for opposing a dictatorship, he came to settle in Britain

People who make such big sacrifices in the name of democracy should some form of national recognition, maybe get a medal.

Publius Ovidius · Dec 15, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
What do we all think Brexit will look like finally.

I think we will still be in the single market and the customs union and paying for the privilege. I don't mind this, as whilst like @Buzzer I don't favour the federalist EU, I do appreciate single market access. This will mean free movement of labour although I would expect us to use the already in place rules for tightening it up.

Out but in the softest manner.

The way I see it is that option is like paying for the privilege of being in a club, say like a golf club, but not having any say on how the rules are set or changed or how much the membership fees will go up by. When we were in the EU, at least we had a veto of stuff we didn't like or want...like european army or the adoption of the Euro and in some cases keeping pounds and ounces and pints.

If the EU was to get arsey, is they could say " ok, you can have a trade deal , however it's based on you adopting all the European Standards as now, and you give us access to your inland waters for fishing ...like it is now, you do not make any trade deals that undercut the EU, and you will not undercut the EU in any taxation ( although of course Ireland did that and the EU went potty) ....then you can trade with us with only 30% duty on your goods coming into the EU "

It seems to me the EU have every card in the pack and we are going to have to take what we are given. people say they rely on us more than us on them, but let's hope that is not put to the test.

Herr Tubthumper · Dec 15, 2017

We’re are all our Brexit friends? It’s very quiet.

ManOfSussex · Dec 15, 2017

I'm sure they're watching - some of them like to watch all kinds of things on the internet.

JC Footy Genius · Dec 15, 2017

Mental Lental said:
Yes because that's how democracy ACTUALLY WORKS. You don't just "win" and get to tell the losers to "**** off back to wherever you came from like you do after winning a game of footy. This vote has put to death that "Hard Brexit" you seemed to think you were getting in the event of "No deal". To put it in the simplest of terms that your pea-sized brain is capable of understanding......

NO DEAL = NO BREXIT

What was that term you used? Oh yes......

TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK
regards
ML

Really?

No deal = 'crashng out' unless you can get the government to request an extension and then get all EU 27 members to agree to that .... all at the last minute.

Brexit: No renegotiation if MPs reject deal Theresa May gets, EU leader warns

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...council-xavier-betel-luxembourg-a8110376.html

Tory rebels have made 'no deal' Brexit more likely, EU leaders warn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-made-no-deal-brexit-likely-eu-leaders-warn/

TICK TOCK

Regards

JCFG

The Clamp · Dec 15, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
We’re are all our Brexit friends? It’s very quiet.

JC Footy Genius · Dec 15, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
I think you're prematurely over simplifying what's been said and provisionally agreed. If what you say ends up being true then yes, I'll be very unhappy but so will millions of others. It will probably mean the decimation of the Tory party - I'd never vote for them again ( not that I did at the last two elections ). I also suspect you'd see the emergence of an anti-EU party .... possibly a revitalised UKIP or a new broader one.

That's putting it politely.Trolling/talking out of the wrong orifice is nearer the truth

CHAPPERS · Dec 15, 2017

EU want full membership until end of transition then.

neilbard · Dec 15, 2017

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