Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
This was based on his piece in the Observer.
I wondered whether he and Owen Jones get on in the journalists tea room at Observer/Guardian HQ?
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
This was based on his piece in the Observer.
I wondered whether he and Owen Jones get on in the journalists tea room at Observer/Guardian HQ?
fanseagull
New member
- Dec 18, 2018
- 228
or not.... unless you have the power to tell the future
Keep up though, we are now onto how we might be on our way as well as whether it really is worth it.
Any views or are you equally sanguine about all alternatives?
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Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 8,692
No such thing as an interesting tweet from Nick Cohen. Utter garbage.
Baker lite
Banned
We leave on March 29th, that’s set in law,unless the establishment elite decide to break the law..
On our way.
fanseagull
New member
- Dec 18, 2018
- 228
.... or revoke/delay article 50.
No preference on how we leave then - if we do?
That's interesting.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
pastafarian
Well-known member
I simply made a factual statement regarding the existence of competences and directly applicable law, you decided to dismiss this as ballocks. I am pleased you have now after some reflection and probably looking it up decided its not ballocks and you now recognise that there are indeed treaty competences and directly applicable EU laws and that they do exist after all.
I am saddened to see you now wish more of this type of pooled sovereignty and an increase of these type of directly applicable laws that our parliament cant decide on made by “some of Europe’s top politicians” and more legaslative powers ceded to Brussels from Westminster, you are free to want this of course, but fortunately there was a vote to put your wish on hold and reverse it.
This doesn’t however excuse your mistake that you originally thought competences and directly applicable legislation was a load of rubbish and ballocks. You really should try and educate yourself before making such claims. It’s a shame you have only found out now they exist and you didn’t know about them before you voted in the referendum considering they are fundamental to the parliamentary sovereignty debate……….not that you seem to care much anyway about the issue.
pastafarian
Well-known member
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I think that the chaos and disaster of a no deal exit is, here-and-now, the only way he can get into No.10. If that was to happen, the no deal advocating Tory toffs will be exposed for what they are and will be easy targets. That said, calling for a 2nd vote before that or not, Labour's ambiguity on Brexit can't last forever and splits will emerge, as they obviously will with The Tories.
An election as scheduled in 2022 (or as near to it as possible) would be his best bet in that scenario, but if we were to exit in March with no deal the mess at Westminster (not to the mention the country at large and Ireland) will be far, far greater than now to the point that today will look positively cordial and cooperative in comparison and an election will be needed then. It's a hell of a hospital pass to want to receive though, hence I still have my very strong doubts it's what he actually wants.
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Mtoto
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2003
- 1,841
He is an extremist, agitating for an extremist cause. You may not like the fact that Robinson & every other ultra-nationalist and/or racist in the country are among your fellow-travellers on the Brexit bus, but to attempt to deny it and claim Brexit for the left is risible.
Brexit as a policy was a child of the far right which found support on the far left too, albeit for different reasons. Corbyn, for instance, sees the EU as a corporatist, neo-liberal conspiracy to take over the continent, while on the other side of the spectrum, it is despised for not being neo-liberal enough. Look at the dividing lines within the parties: hard left MPs and hard right MPs, the descendants of Major's ******** and in some cases the actual ******** themselves, are Brexiteers. Moderate Labour MPs and moderate Conservatives are, or were, opposed, along with what's left of the centre.
It's often said that Britain is split down the middle on Brexit. It isn't. The extremes have split from the centre, after decades of push-pull in a FPTP electoral system which sends political thought on both sides further towards the edge and eviscerates the centre in the process. When the pendulum swings, as it always does in the end, it swings a little further back the other way. It's pretty much inevitable when you allow a party with as little as 37pc of the vote to form a *majority* government.
So don't ignore your fellow passengers. Be honest, and embrace them - and then enjoy the ride.
He doesn't care.
As suggested a few pages back, there are a good many people, for whom 'winning' is now far more important than a successful outcome for the nation.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Can we agree that agriculture needs to be maintained, here and in the rest of Europe? To lose it would make us fully dependent on imports and therefore vulnerable, to natural disaster and war in other parts of the world, or even trade disputes. The EU has tried different ways in which to ensure farmers can make a living, and protect the countryside at the same time, and every way has brought criticism and problems in some way. It would be fantastic to remove all subsidy, and one day we will get there, but opening the UK up to all imports without tariff as has been suggested by Mogg would kill UK farmers, removing subsidy with tariffs and other barriers might work, but only if farms become more intensive, and this is bad for the environment. The EU has problems, the CAP is one of them, but leaving it just changes one problem for a bigger one.
The EU and it's member states should work to find a better policy, we can look at any socialist regime in the world and find a problem policy.
Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it before.
Yes, that's pretty much my theory but Cohen is the only other person that I've seen espousing it
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
They sort of remind me of the final scene, of the final episode of 'Allo, 'Allo! in which Edith turns to Rene and asks - 'What will be become of us?' to which Rene replies, reassuringly - 'Don't worry my love, whatever happens, we'll be on the winning side' and she smiles, reassured.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
Wrong thread .
Looks like the poll now sits at about 52% / 48%
Glad to see progress is being made and people are listening to the arguments both sides and starting to change their minds
Yet another who didn't read the question.
This poll tells you NOTHING about how many people may have changed their minds.
I voted 'we will leave' on this poll, and am more firmly pro-Remain than I ever was.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
If all parties are breaking the rules, does that make it a fair referendum? More evidence of rule breaking is more evidence for voiding the result.
If you like, we can agree that a certain amount of overspending is just a yellow card offence. But there must be some Red card offences I reckon, and some offences that should void the result.
Would should be the penalty for playing a Russian ringer?
Would having a fan of one side, in charge of VAR be an issue?
More bollocks and assumption. What a clown you are, Pasta. What a clown your are.