Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,729
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Boris Johnson speech coming up.

I’m sure it’s full of plausible answers and solutions and not more unicorns.

He knows his dreams of being PM are all but dead.

A lot of hot air, maybe suggest a 'managed no deal' and propose sending the Royal Marines to Calcutta to do it all over again.
 

melias shoes

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2010
4,830
That's the antithesis of democracy and displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of Government. Most left this sort of attitude behind them in the school playground.

So should nit picking one line from my post. Funny because I was expecting that from you.
 
D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
Yes, she did, but that's untrue. It could be organised within three months.

But we don't have 3 months and then when leave win again it will have just been a waste of money.

So what are Mogg and Farage suggesting being on the ballot paper???
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
Actually not at all, I've posted this morning an article by Nick Cohen that goes a little further than just criticism.
Then I can't see why you mind me calling him childish for refusing to go to the table to help find a way forward. You came back with what May's done wrong, but I'm not defending May, the government have failed to come up with a deal. May has acted as though she has a large majority and the backing of her party, yet she knows she hasn't. Maybe she's playing the game at a higher level than I can comprehend, because on the face of it it looks like she's ballsed it up.

I'm subtracting the personality from the position, hence I referred to the 'leader of the opposition'. I think many people are annoyed because they simply don't like the man, but that is irrelevant really.
There are some real slimy scumbags in politics, so by comparison Corbyn comes across as a decent man. It's his policies and admiration of leaders like Hugo Chavez that scare the shit out me. And regardless, I don't feel the need to like our PM, I just want them to run the country properly.

If May has gone this far, ignored the wishes of the opposite benches for this long, she has to offer an olive branch of some description, otherwise it is just a stunt, "look at me, I'm consulting".
With her red lines it looks like the latter at the moment, but at least the other leaders have the chance to point out that the red lines (on all sides) currently mean we won't get a consensus, but when her next deal fails, new lines will need to be drawn. These meetings should allow the leaders to talk without the slating that has to go with public displays.

As leader of the government she is right to have drawn lines, but there comes a point where she needs to accept that the house won't ratify them, and she needs to reevaluate.

As Simon Jenkins said in another piece I posted (I see you found it), she could set up a 1 issue coalition, possibly betray much of her own party, but it would be for the good of a Brexit to benefit the country.
Yes, although I'm not sure how she'd go about doing it and finding the common ground.

At present we have an invite to talk with another vote in 2 weeks, without any concessions being offered. That is no way to start a negotiation, mediation, or discussion. You have to offer something.
You don't have to offer concessions before the talk, you just start talking. Like mediation in any legal case, you don't need to concede anything before the meeting, you just meet and start talking. May doesn't owe Corbyn anything, he lost the election. If he wants to talk, he's been invited.
 


Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
But we don't have 3 months and then when leave win again it will have just been a waste of money.

So what are Mogg and Farage suggesting being on the ballot paper???

Ask for an extension to Article 50.

Nothing as they haven't got a clue, except how to stir it.
 

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
So should nit picking one line from my post. Funny because I was expecting that from you.

TBH the rest of the post was largely paranoid drivel so not really worth engaging with. Or it ignored the core tenement of our constitution that one Parliament does not bind it's successor, so it is perfectly entitled to review and change any decision it made.
 

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,859
Crawley
I have no problem with supporting Agriculture and farmers generally however the CAP is a historic acronism which provides millions to rich landowners. As we know these landowners are very well connected if not part of the current political structure (Hesaltine, Duke of Wellington etc) therefore meaningful reform is unlikely.

Notwithstanding Mogg, i think Brexit would mean UK farmers would continue to be subsidised, and that would be appropriate for a period of time. We can look at the lessons of NZ to removing farming subsidies.

The key here is the UK will no longer be paying to protect farmers in 27 other countries, meaning a lot of produce should be cheaper. This would benefit UK consumers and therefore the poor. Further, it would also benefit farmers in developing countries who do not export to the EU due to EU tariffs.

The consequences of CAP on poor counties is another aspect of CAP that is unjustifiable. Basically the EU dumps surplus produce into Africa at prices local farmers cannot compete with, this means their markets are continually depresed.

Dont get me wrong my primary concern is UK consumers, the consequences for Africa is secondary, however it proves that CAP is loaded against the poor in the UK, EU and elsewhere to the benefit of rich landowners. Of all of the aspects of the EU I despise, CAP is up there, it is 40% of the EU budget, and it’s indefensible in its effect on the poor. I’m saddened when even the fair minded can’t see that.

I don't see it as black and white as you do. I also don't think scrapping CAP will do much for redistribution of wealth. Clearly, payments for doing nothing with the land, creates some problems, but so did guaranteed prices for production, creating wine lakes and butter mountains etc. If you open up the market to competition from places where animal welfare or environmental practices are lower, you damage the chances of standards here from being maintained and do nothing to encourage better practices elsewhere.
The EU recognises the issues CAP creates in developing countries, and is trying to find ways to improve this in balance with other objectives. You won't want to read this, but it may alter your views a bit if you find the time to. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2018/603862/EXPO_STU(2018)603862_EN.pdf
 


D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
Ask for an extension to Article 50.

Nothing as they haven't got a clue, except how to stir it.

Or maybe they have just had enough of remainer May faffing about.

They are bringing it to a head and get the right deal to get out of the EU and so they should IMO.

There are no better common sense MPs than Mogg and Farage imo and remainers should be worried if it goes to another referendum.
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
Yes, I find it puzzling that so many are still saying it would be difficult / would split the vote / etc.

You have a referendum that has two questions:
1 - do you want to leave / stay?
2 - if the outcome of the referendum on Q1 is to leave, then which option would you prefer: Mays deal / no deal / whatever else is on offer at that point?

This way, whichever way you vote, you can then have a say on what sort of leave deal you want if the vote is to leave.
That wouldn't work as well as the options described in the thread Watford linked to. The problem with your option is that many Leave votes would choose either 'Leave May's deal' or 'Leave no deal' as their first choice, but their second choice would be to remain. Your method would leave us where we are now, with most people saying that we want to leave, but when the method of leave is revealed the majority wishing we would remain instead.
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
But we don't have 3 months and then when leave win again it will have just been a waste of money.

So what are Mogg and Farage suggesting being on the ballot paper???

Or maybe they have just had enough of remainer May faffing about.

They are bringing it to a head and get the right deal to get out of the EU and so they should IMO.

There are no better common sense MPs than Mogg and Farage imo and remainers should be worried if it goes to another referendum.

I misled you in my previous tweet.
The Constitution Unit say 22-24 weeks laying out the correct procedures.
https://constitution-unit.com/2018/...ndum-on-brexit/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


Anyone who thinks JRM and Farage have common sense is taking the mickey. I didn't realise you were part of the Eton old boys network too.
I doff my cap to you.
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
That's just plain incorrect. This referendum was not legally binding. We can abandon Brexit anytime we like.

Wrong again. I agree that the referendum wasn't binding BUT since then Parliament HAS passed a law, which is still in place, that says we WILL leave on the 29th March ..... unless another law is passed.
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
Having had to pay off Norway to be allowed in.
I'm not sure that Norway are in a position to demand payment. If we were discussing with them the option to join the EEA with Norway, and they made it difficult, they'd be made aware that one of our alternatives is to stay in the EU, where we could make things difficult for Norway.
 

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
60,981
Chandlers Ford
There are no better common sense MPs than Mogg and Farage imo and remainers should be worried if it goes to another referendum.

Nigel Farage is not, never has been, and almost certainly never will be, an MP.

He's stood for election many times, and never come close.

Because he is a lying, self-interested little toad.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,546
Cumbria
That wouldn't work as well as the options described in the thread Watford linked to. The problem with your option is that many Leave votes would choose either 'Leave May's deal' or 'Leave no deal' as their first choice, but their second choice would be to remain. Your method would leave us where we are now, with most people saying that we want to leave, but when the method of leave is revealed the majority wishing we would remain instead.

In your method, to get the version of leave you want you have to risk having the type of leave that you think could be worse than remaining, and what you would probably end up with in a leave result, is many remainers voting for a norway type deal as their leave option, whereas far fewer of the people that actually want to leave think that is the way to go, and would rather remain than have that type of Leave. The result would be that a large majority would agree that remaining was preferable to this type of leave, but we do it anyway.

Hmm yes, I see what you both mean.
 

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports

Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills


Top
Link Here